TravisSwicegood.com

Travis,

RE: Your response to Rick Mathes

Right On!!!

I read all of this through morbid curiosity. You're both pretty dogmatic it would seem. You also need to brush up on your grammar, too many mistakes. Don't you proof your work?

Rick is dogmatic, going by the definition of "arrogant assertion of unproved or unprovable principles." I would hardly classify my response as dogmatic though. I'd have to ask what in what I've said is unprovable?

Thanks for the tip on grammer. Hopefully, if it bothers you a lot, you'll find your browser's back button. I'm not meaning to be as harsh as that sounds, but really? I'll assume you meant the best by your comment, and leave it at that.

i found this site completely by accident. i was researching mr. mathes. i find mr. swicegood a bit arrogant and unwilling to accept any type of constructive criticism. sir, why even bother asking for feedback? ( i mean it's only grammatical ) i am sure there will be a negative response to my comments also.
mr. swicegood, try to get past yourself.

YOU'RE RIGHT ON ONE THING... "YOUR RESPONSE IS REALLY BULKY!"

TO SUM UP WHAT YOU'RE POINTING OUT: YOU JUST MEANT "LOVE". ON YOUR CONCLUSION YOU SUGGEST ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS... WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL PUSH YOU TO DO SO? DUH!! OF COURSE LOVE!

YOU PUT A LOT A BLABS OUT OF WHAT Mr. MATHES WROTE! STOP USING OTHERS SO YOU CAN GAIN SOMETHING.

Cool - I've incited the wrath of god... :)

YOU'RE RIGHT ON ONE THING... "YOUR RESPONSE IS REALLY BULKY!"

Where'd I say that? I guess I should re-read what I've posted. Ok, just did - "end the bulk of my response" translates into "end the basic points I've made, and make no more". If it wouldn't come across as arrogant, or a negative response to your comment, I would suggest you read a little more than Mathes' writing and you would have seen the play on words before and understood what was meant. You also might learn how to use quotation marks.

STOP USING OTHERS SO YOU CAN GAIN SOMETHING.

What do I have to gain? Unlike Mr. Mathes, who attracts attention and financial donations by being a firebrand minister and actively calling for the immediate heresy of the entire US Muslim population, I gain nothing save for a folks who come to my site and leave comments pointing out the grammatical errors I've made or those posing as the divine retribution of god. Yeah, I guess that does qualify as something, but it wouldn't qualify as something I would seek out.

Hey Trav,
I actually stumbled upon this page when my wife did a 'google' on "Rick Mathes". The reason she searched it was that a friend and I (both Muslims) were writing a clarification in response to the Rick Mathes anecdote being forwarded to us; and she was looking for a contact for him. (Although I'm not too interested in contacting him). Anyways, my point is, if you don't mind, I'd like to send you a copy of our response.

I assume that you're the webmaster, so you have my address. (and I don't have yours). So drop me a note if you like.

Oh...and just a little correction

Allah doesn't say that the Jews were too ignorant to accept Jesus (peace be on him) but he said (the translation of which is):

And indeed, We gave M?sa (Moses) the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with R?h-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed. (Al-Baqarah 2:87)

(btw, we don't believe that Jesus was killed)

Hi Jez,

You've been on my list of people to mail back for since your last email. Sorry I haven't responded before now.

It would be quite possible my interpretation of that was wrong. The footnotes I was reading along with the interpretation of the Koran said that the passage was a condemnation of both of those religions as the Jews would not except many of the prophets either by denying or killing them. Actually saying they were ignorant was adding my take on the passage.

That last statement is interesting. I've never heard of or read anything that disputes his death - it's what happened afterward that is up in the air. If you don't mind clarifying, I would love to hear what you have to say.

I would love to hear what you have to say. Please, feel free to post it here in the comments section if you like. As you noted, this site is rather easy to find by Google when you're looking for Rick Mathes so others could read your thoughts.

Author's note: I am also sending this comment via email to Jez. Hopefully, he will share his thoughts here as well as via private communications.

Well, no need for me to clarify when a real "Islamic Imam" has already wrote something on it.

The short treatise "The Status of Jesus in Islaam" pretty much summarizes the Muslim's belief on Jesus (May peace be on him).

Here's the url where you can find it:

http://al-ibaanah.com/ebooks.php?EID=56&PHPSESSID=9673ed944b43ca4e0c1d47a33d9c6a0f

or alternatively see the "E-books" links on www.al-ibaanah.com

As far as the clarification goes, I'll send it to your e-mail God willing, and then you can probably decide if you want to post it, and in what format.

Oh, I also noticed some statements made by Mr. Mathes in his response to you that I thought I should comment on.

He says:
"My concern is the silent Muslims that won't condemn the radical Muslims..."

Silent Muslims?
What? Is the media - that he seems to be more concerned with publicizing the extremists and creating fear than being just or, at least, balanced ? his only source of info on Islam?

Here are just a FEW of the statements of mainstream Muslims scholars on some of the issues in question:

http://fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm

http://fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih007/index.htm

Can't blame the media though, Fear gets higher ratings than truth doesn't it?

Also he says:

"nor will the American Muslims sing "God Bless America" or say the "Pledge of Allegiance" under God like any red blooded American would."

And I thank God that they don't. Islam does not endorse the spirit of nationalism or any other form of gregariousness ,except for that based on ones piety (i.e. adherence to God's commands, the most fundamental being to direct all forms of worship to Him alone)

http://www.troid.org/articles/dawah/methodologyofdawah/nationalism.htm

So, if the fact that the Muslims don't join Mr. Mathes in his patriotism makes him feel uncomfortable, the most I can say is "Oh well..."

And if he believes that this identifies Islam as a threat to his way of life...Well then I invite him to feel threatened, because it is indeed so. However, the threat that Islaam poses isn't terrorism as President Bush would have us believe. It is a destruction of vain desires, and the opening of a path for freedom of the heart, and this is true freedom.

http://www.troid.org/articles/ibaadah/knowledge/introductorymaterialconcerningknowledge/theenslavement.htm

(I know the references might be a bit lengthy, so if you're checking them out, I don't recommend that you read all in one go. It might be better to read them one at a time so that they can be properly absorbed and pondered on. The web sites I referenced are trustworthy sources for Islaamic info, so feel free to browse.)

After re-reading the treatise on "The Status of Jesus in Islam" I just realized that it doesn't deal specifically with the issue of the supposed "crucifixion" of Jesus (peace be on him). So, apologies are in order for anyone who read the treatise expecting to find elucidation on "we don't think Jesus was killed". Sorry, although I think, nevertheless, that the article is very important and is a must read for any Christian sincerely seeking the Truth.

So to keep things short I'll just paste in the appropriate verses from the Qur'an addressing the issue. And I'll include a link for further reading.

There are lots of resources online clarifying the Muslims position on the cruci-fiction and arguing to show the Bible isn't clear on the issue. But I wont provide references for them here because I don't endorse everything that is on those websites, nor do I think that the correct manners and approach is utilized by many of the Muslim authors who address the issue.

So in summary:

And they (disbelievers) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus)], and All?h planned too. And All?h is the Best of the planners. (Aali Imran 3:54)

And (remember) when All?h said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is All?h's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but All?h) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of All?h, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Iesa (Jesus), M?sa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taur?t (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'?n] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute." (Aali Imran 3:55)

And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of All?h," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) ]
But All?h raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And All?h is Ever All?Powerful, All?Wise. (An-Nisa 4:157-158 )


See the article:
The Muslim View of the Ascension of Jesus
http://www.troid.org/articles/islaamicinfo/Islaamingeneral/Jesus/ascension.htm

Dear Travis,

This is an excerpt from an article I wrote that highlights the fact that homosexuality is not physical, it is a choice. I am submitting this for you to publish in your newsletter or put on your web site. Thank you in advance for this consideration.

?I have a dog named Buffy and she is a girl dog. She goes out and she finds a boy dog and they fall in love and she has puppies. She knows she?s a girl dog and he knows he?s a boy dog. All anyone has to do is look down their pants to find out what God made them to be. If they can?t figure that out, they have less sense than my dog Buffy!?

Go to ?Editorials? on my web site (www.missiongateministry.org) for remainder of article ?My Dog Buffy.? The whole point is that sexual preference is consistent with your physical creation. Any deviation is not normal. Thus, homosexuals are ?abnormal? and must go to the Lord to have this ?unnatural? behavior corrected. This is what God teaches in His Word, the Bible!

Press On!
Rick Mathes

Chesterfield , MO

Firstly, I am not certain how homosexuality pertains to this discussion, but I will address Mr. Mathes on his own website regarding that. Secondly, I would like to know how Mr. Swicegood became so angry with Christianity (why do you feel betrayed by it?). I read the "Allah V Jesus" article and found it to be less Pro-Christian than Anti-Intolerance. This chain was started as an excuse to slam Christianity, not to defend Islam or tolerance...a typical ex-Chritian current Pagan response. Travis, I do not care which God(s) you worship, even none at all, if you chose. I do care that you are preventing yourself from be truly faithful to your religion by your obsessive need to contradict your former religion because you never came to terms with the reason you left.

I agree with Kim..it does not matter who's God you believe in,,,it matters that you believe! Rick Mathes has a real problem with his beliefs too! He should seek a new line of work because true Christian do not bash other's beliefs. So let's start bashing the Catholics, the Lutherens, the Methodists, the Quakers, the Jews, the Baptists next. Then maybe we can continue with a Real Group of Idiots...the K-K-K and Drug Pushers.

Travis,

I too happened upon your site as a result of a Google search... interesting stuff.

I would like more info in reference to a statement you made: "...I find it convenient that the Catholic Church seemingly surpressed all of the material that doubted the neccessity of foregoing a meaningful existance on this earth for one that will come in the next."

If you could give me reference points from which I could jump off, I'd really appreciate it. I'd like to do more research on this point.

I'm not a Muslim but a devout Christian. However, I have a great respect for Islam and it's many significant contributions to civilization. I've read authors such as Bernard Lewis and John Esposito in an effort to learn more about the culture as well as the faith and I must say that my respect continues to grow as I read.

I searched Mathis' name because I was angered by what I read and responded as such to the person who sent it to me.

I feel I grow in my faith by continually challanging and questioning it. So far my challenges have all been met well. But the above mentioned comment is something new for me to challenge. Please help if you can.

Fraternally yours in faith,
Thomas

I came across this website following up on Mr. Mathes. I can see by so many responses, that either TRUTH hurts and THE LIGHT has exposed your darkness. There are different aspects - Biblical and political. We can definitely see a holy war going on in our troubled world. As for those of who that are troubled with our patriotism, I ask, "Why are you here?" We did'nt ask for you to come here and reinvent the wheel. There have been many different religions that have come to the surface in the last few centuries. There is only one LORD, God Almighty, Yahweh. A God who forgives and loves us and wants us to love others. Islam religion came from Ishmael, Abraham's son. God (The God who seeks us) did not give the blessings to Ishmael. He gave the blessings to Isaac (Read Genesis 17:20), who was faithful to God and not Al-LAH (The god), who is Ishmael's god - a god you cannot have a personal relationship with. Read Genesis 25:12-18 The Koran or Quran is their Book of Laws and that is what the Islam base their identity with - The Law. Muhammad was born 570 years after Christ was born. Christ had a mother, her name was Mary and she was blessed by giving birth to God's Son. He followed the plan God had for Him to show other's His love and took our sins upon Him, died to take those sins away, but resurrected to give us new life if we believe and follow Him. Because God's Word says "No man can come to the Father but by me." GOD doesn't want confusion of many gods and who to worship and how to worship. He has made it simple and plain. It's the overly educated that want to make it complex and then there are others who want anyway and everyway if you have some kind of belief system, you'll be OK - now what kind of a plan is that? Muhammad had a revelation in 610 AD that he was the prophet that was to be the comforter after Jesus left this earth. He twisted TRUTH and turned it into a lie to destroy us. How is God glorified by this? The Comforter, after Jesus resurrected, is the HOLY SPIRIT that God provided to live in us when we believe, not to destroy, but to bless us as we walk with Him and protect us, to give us eternal life. Read John 14:16-17 We don't have to hate others that don't believe the way we do - No as a matter of fact he wants us to love them and pray for them. Read Genesis 16:12 and 25:18 The Islams hate is growing rapidly. Most other religions or cults have prophets that have laws, rules you must follow and their is NO SAVIOR - who's going to save them? What's sad is Muhammad did not know where he was going when he left this earth. I am so thankful I have a forgiving God and that he had a perfect, blameless Son to ransom my debt and that I know where I am going when my time is up. Read 1st John 5:30. This may sound jibberish to many of you, but I pray that you find answers through the God Breathed Book of TRUTH the Holy Bible. The New International Version with Life Application is a great way to learn. God Bless you and peace be unto you. Sincerely, Juhen

Dear Juhen,

As a babe in Christ, after reading your comment I was inspired to read the bible. Reading on from Genesis 17:18 you will find that God said he WILL bless Ishmael and will establish his covenant with Isaac.

To All Contibutors

I once was lost but now i am found. Not by my own doing but by the grace and mercy of my savior Jesus Christ. Truth is not understood, it is revealed by the Holy Spirit of God. Shaming someone for what he believes to prove a point or the truth is not 1. why Jesus(God)became a man(human) & 2. not how he introduced the Good News.

He did not come to earth to condemn the world(mankind), but to SAVE the world through him. Jesus,the only person who ever had reason to condemn mankind, did not do it, but came full of grace & truth to reconcile mankind with God. There is only one God and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a randsom. He did not condemn mankind because he knew the truth of mankind's spiritual condition = that they cannot save themselves.

Only a perfect, unblemished sacrifice could atone for ALL our sins. No natural man, could accomplish this, because God says, be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Because of his great love for mankind, God sent his only perfect Son to do what none of us could do for ourselves or for others.

Jesus was fully man and could therefore fully represent the entire human race before God by offering himself as atonement for all sin. Jesus was and is fully God and could live a sinless or unspoiled life making his sacrifice acceptable to God for the sins of the whole world.

Even if it were possible that Muslims, or radical Muslims to be exact, could kill all unbelievers, they would still be eternaly lost(seperated from God) and it would have all been in vain. We all have to be washed by the blood of the Lamb. None of us can come to God based on our own understanding or beliefs. We can only come to the foot of the cross where Jesus took away all our sins and reconciled us to God.

I need Jesus just as much as any Muslim cleric, but i cannot convince him of the truth. I must tell him the truth so that supernaturaly by the spirit of God, He will also reveal it to him. That is the Good News of Jesus Christ, that he loves all mankind and wants them to know the truth.

If we do not accept his truth, we CONDEMN OURSELVES. God says, WHOEVER believes in him (Jesus) is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. This is the judgement: Light (Jesus) has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.

This is what every human being must be confronted with, will you believe in God and what he has already done for you, or will you continue to live as the Bible says, we have all sinned and each gone our own way. Don't choose one religion or any other belief system above the other, believe in the truth, Jesus God's only Son. All who call on the name of the Lord Jesus will be saved. How can anyone reject such an offer?

By the way, for those still sceptical, Jesus rose from the dead, appeared to many witnesses, and accended to prove he was and is the only true God.

Reach out in humility and love with the truth of the Gospel. Then we don't have to shame or demean others to make ourselves feel good, or even worse, misrepresent our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Andre

I, too, ended up here after Googling "Rick Mathes" after reading his letter. I wanted to do a little research and make sure that these were, in fact, actual comments made by actual people before commenting on and / or forwarding it to others.

It was interesting reading his comments and agreeing with some of the thoughts expressed by him. It has, and I'm sure will, fuel the fire of fear in those who are willing to let someone else do their thinking for them and accept with blind faith what they are being told.

I just want to thank everyone who has posted their thoughts and views here because it is only through honest and open discussion that "we" can really learn about "them". "We" and "Them" are interchangable from one side to the other, as the user sees fit.

I do not support any group that has as it's core principal - kill those who are unlike ourselves for they are inferior to us. I didn't like it from the KKK and I don't like it any better today. One thing I noticed was that no one refutes was that that is the premise of Muslims today. Could someone please clarify in yes or no terms if this is the tenet of Muslims?

If the answer is yes, then we non-Muslims have a right to be concerned.

If the answer is no, then I say "Live and let live".

As someone who has studied the Koran (lightly, but I have referred to the source material which is more than I can say for Mathes and his ilk), the answer is a resounding no. Well, unless you want to allow that Christians have the right to kill others because they are not saved, or that Jews being the chosen ones and all have the right to kill those who get in their way.

See, the thing with religion is that any nutcase can cherry pick a verse or two, cite a prophet, or claim some divine revelation and start a holy war. Ok, it's not that simple. It does take hundreds of years of fermenting (read distorting) of the original religion before it gets so convoluted that some power hungry maniac can disfigure the religion in such a way the abominable seems not only justifiable, but a religious duty.

What a load of crap. The issue is the unwillingness of muslims to interrate into our society and live by our democratic laws, instead beleiving in religious law. If you move to another country, embrace that country and live by it's ideals.

You people scare the crap out of me. Please, please, tell me you are all American. Then I can happily reside in our relatively tolerant Australia safe in the knowledge that I will not at any time run into any of you. Travis, I'll send you a ticket. cheers Shona

WOW!!!!!!Up until today I did not know who Rick Mathes was ( no wonder they say ignorance is bliss!!). Found out about him by an email someone sent to me with the Allah % Jesus dialogue between Rick and the myslim brother ( sorry....Forgot his name!!) To me it seems like Rick belongs on the same leaugue as Pat Robertson... ( another religious extremist and homophobic cause they're latent homosexuals themselves too!!!) If only Jesus and Mohamed ( whatever is spelled) would be alive today!!!!

Hmmm... It's easy for wolves to craft fake interviews or at least put serious spin on events as a way to get points across that are otherwise unsubstantiated. But it doesn't make them true.

I could easily make similar unsubstantiated claims about all Christians in general, and there will be a grain of truth in them (since they do apply to a fringe of Christians):

1) Christians believe in killing anyone at a family planning clinic
2) Christians believe in supporting the interests of the rich and powerful, and looking the other way as those in power ignore the poor and powerless, because Christians believe that being rich and powerful is a sign of God's favor, and being poor and powerless is a sign of sin
3) Christians believe in aggressively taking power from any regimes that do not share Christian values, world view, or preferred political system (something they share with certain Muslims!)

Peace and understanding is the path to truth, not aggression and falsehood. That is the truth that too many conservative Christians and other (fake Christian) neo-conservatives don't understand, or ignore (since the end justifies the means?).

People, raise your kids to be open to dialog, question prejudice, and keep an eye out for the "wolves in sheep's clothing".

If any of the words describing Christians are true, then why are Christians killing Muslims everyday...?

This is great... judging by the people's responses and standards, overconfidence, arrogance, immature and accusing behaviour - it doesnt take much to see that Rick Mathes article is no longer the problem to anything... it's how you are all responding, that's what everyone can is now seeing - and this is where the true qualities of love, acceptance, sharing, and understanding is speculated...

Rick Mathes was simply the test.. all the "inappropriate" responses that have occured as a result only act as a self confession of the morals of the people reflecting the sort of religion they stand for...

one must also not assume that these people correctly respresent the attitudes of their religion, but i think it's safe to say in most cases.. they do.

God bless,

MM

oh, and by the way, spelling/grammatical errors don't particularly bug me... encrypt it for yourself appropriately if it bothers u... i just hope you understand the underlying message..

MM

Interesting discussion however those who dispute Rick Mathes views never seem to discuss one of the fundamental premises of the article; the "jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven". A number of questions need to be asked and these a just a few that come to mind:

1. Is there or isn't there a difference between God and Allah or is this only a distinction made by man?

2. Does the Koran espouse the killing of infidels (non-believers) and in fairness does the Bible also espouse killing of non-believers?

3. Do followers of any religion distort the meaning to further their goal and I purport to do evil instead of good? I am not an expert on Islam but it seems to me that maybe some so-called Imam's have issued jihads that seem contrary to my understanding of the Koran. It would seem logical that if these jihads do not follow the tenants of the Islamic faith then a strong repudiation by the leaders of Islam should be heard. I have not heard such a response.

Pertinent excerpts from "Islaam - Is it a religion of TERROR?":
http://www.troid.org/articles/islaamicinfo/Islaamingeneral/commonmisconceptions/isitareligionofterror.htm

>>
By simply looking into the sources of Islam, one is able to know that the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allaah. Thus striving in the way of Allaah can be both peaceful and physical. The Prophet Muhammed (salallaahu alayhi wa salam) said: "The best jihad is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allaah, The Mighty and Majestic". In the Qur'an, Allaah also says:

"So obey not the disbelievers, but make a great jihad (effort) against them (by preaching) with it (the Qur'an)"

(Surah Al-Furqan 25:52).

By controlling and fighting against ones desires, the Muslims can then also physically exert themselves in the path of Allaah. It is this physical or combative jihad which receives so much criticism. Because of the sheer ignorance of this type of jihad Islam is regarded as terror, and Muslims are regarded as terrorists. However, the very purpose of this physical jihad is to raise the word of Allaah uppermost. By doing this, it liberates and emancipates all those who are crying out for freedom all over the world. If the likes of the pacifists of this world had their way, then the world would indeed be full of anarchy and mischief. The combative jihad seeks to correct this as Allaah says in the Qur'an:

"And if Allaah did not check one set of people by means of another, the Earth would be full of mischief. But Allaah is full of bounty to the worlds"

(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:251).

===========================
By looking at the rules and regulations of this combative jihad it will be clear to any sincere person that this is indeed the religion of truth. When fighting an unjust enemy, no matter how unjust they are, it is forbidden by Islam that their retreating forces are mutilated, tortured or slaughtered. The treacherous violation of treaties and carrying out assassinations after a cease fire, are also prohibited. Allaah says in the Qur'an:

"And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you. But do not transgress the limits. Truly Allaah loves not the transgressors"

(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190).

Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allaah (saws) "forbade the killing of women and children" [5]. Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:

"Allaah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allaah loves those who deal with equity"

(Surah Al-Mumtahinah 60:8).

===========================
So what about suicide bombing, is this too a part of jihad in Allaah's path?

The Prophet (saws) said: "Those who go to extremes are destroyed".

Suicide bombing is undoubtedly an extremity which has reached the ranks of the Muslims. In the rules of warfare, we find no sanction for such an act from the behaviour and words of the Prophet Muhammed (saws) and his companions.

What really hammers the final nail in the coffin of this act, is that it is suicide; something which is clearly forbidden in Islam. The Messenger of Allaah (saws) said: "He who kills himself with anything, Allaah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell"

==================



"There is no compulsion in religion. The right path has indeed become distinct from the wrong. So whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allaah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allaah is All Hearing, All Knowing"

(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)

I feel Mr. Mathes article is tabloid and promotes hate between races, faiths, and nationalitys. Religion is love, not hate. I do agree that protective action is necessary, but to cloak this need in religious fundementalism reflects in a negative way on the messenger and dilutes the message. I do feel that the article has produced some good, in that people like myself will question it and become a little better educated, and education is the enemy of ignorance.

I have been following Mr. Mathes forum on his website for a few months now and reading all of what many people had to say about him and his beliefs. In the past 3 months I watched his forum go from having just a hand full of comments to almost 200. I was happy to find many people did not take his side in the Allah or Jesus argument.

But as of just recently, I found Mr. Mathes decided to wipe out the forum. I guess the vibes he was getting were a little to much for him to handle.

He left many peoples questions unanswered which only confirmed what I have thought of him all along. That he is more ignorant than the man or so called Imam, he was questioning that day in the jail.

Response to "I believe we need to figure out a way to embrace them, ask for forgiveness, and move forward showing them that we have changed our ways."

The people that need to ask forgiveness are all dead. Yes, bigots in Europe centruies ago carved up Africa and the Middle East and decided who would get the pieces. Not only are they dead and gone, but they are the ones we fought and died to beat in North America in the 1700s. (Note to the French: Thank you for your help!)

I did nothing wrong. I don't need to ask forgiveness. It's the same with slavery. If the guilty have talked with God by now, they know how wrong they were.

"Embrace them?" We let them live in the USA. There's no greater act of kindness than that.

"Ask for forgiveness," and show them that "we have changed our ways?" We're feeding more than half of them, for crying out loud! What do they want, the keys to the Capitol Buiding?

Yes, centuries ago some European nitwits in power screwed up. Thank God that they lost their power. The same needs to happen to any fake Muslims running countries today, and the real Muslims need to do it. Why isn't every real Imam calling for jihad against those who commit atrocities but still claim they are Muslim? Nothing since 9/11 confuses me more than that silence.

If you want forgiveness, first help our armed forces take out the evil leaders of your contries. Then, see if you feel like getting apologies ... or giving thanks.

i agree with you if mr mathis would bother to read the quran he would no that no where does it say to kill non beleavers or anyone else and i was very upset to know that a so called man of god would ever post such a letter much less send it out to people this letter is so full of lies and we all wonder why the world is the way it is today... look hard its becouse of people like mr mathis
christy

A Simmering Volcano
By
Rick Mathes

America is in an epidemic of crime that is sweeping the inner-cities and plying on the young minorities to ?join the family.? In St. Louis as well as in other major cities the majority of children are born to fatherless homes and ironically most black men killed are murdered by black men. And our prisons are disproportionately populated by a black population. And now the nation of Islam is sweeping up those that our educational system and racial prejudices have left behind. How can anyone be surprised that minority retribution is cloaking itself within the blessings of Allah? Dumbing-down is backfiring!

Financed by the white suburban addicts buying up all the ?white? heroin and meth anyone can produce, these home grown terrorists are raping and pillaging their own neighborhoods as gang after gang hook up with radical Muslims that will not denounce their evil intentions. The silence of the American Muslim community is deafening. Is anyone awake? The volcano is about to explode.

Prisons are a breeding ground for those who have found violence, crime and drug dealing as a way out of the ghetto. When an inmate is released to society he returns to those ?who will take care of him? and stands proudly as a parole that has ?earned his stripes.? The young gangsters look up to him and all that he has learned while incarcerated by the ?Department of Education.? (Or was that Department of Corrections?) The system doesn?t work and more of what doesn?t work, won?t work!

It has been estimated that at the rate of ?black flight? from St. Louis, by the year 2037 the last porch light will go out. The city will be desolate and the suburbs will be the new battle ground. That won?t happen but we can?t ignore those that are left behind and the fractured families that are at the mercy of the militant Muslims that make ?Osama bin Laden? look like ?Mr. Rogers.?

American terrorists are finding their way into the Muslim community and masking their violence and crime with the blessings of Allah. The Koran points the way to a ?better society? that excludes those who don?t believe (infidels). So all those unbelievers are the enemy and the victory must go to Allah no matter what it takes or who it harms in the process.

The fatal attraction is not in some far distant country, it is within the very soul of our major cities.

Someone, someday will pen the ?Rise and Fall of America? and maybe we have helped him write the final chapter with our tolerance of the silent Muslim community that may very well be a simmering volcano.

www.missiongateministry.org
MissionGateMinistry@msn.com

Rick, I have no problem with you using my site to respond to your critics. But using it for blatant propagandizing and proselytizing are off limits. I have a strict no spam policy, you're flirting with it.

That said, do you know realize how dripping with racism your article is? How 'bout how hypocritical? The New Jerusalem ring any bells? Isn't that where your god is going go have all of the believers while the rest are cast aside for eternity? Are you sure you're not using a pen name and really aren't a baptist preacher out of Topeka?

You are right though, I believe you have helped provide material for a very, very important part of the history of the United States. Thankfully, it will only be a side journey instead of the final chapter, but you have the title wrong. "Religious Fundamentalism: The fall of religion in America" It will record how fundamentalists in both the Muslim and Christian faiths turned their backs on the beautiful teaching at their foundation and used them as a tool for their own gains. It will probably chronicle how most on both sides were delusional enough to believe that they were truly doing God's work, but how in hindsight even the shattered remnants of those faiths admit they were misguided at best, evil at worst.

It will end noting that the mainstay of American life until the mid-20th century was dealt it's final blow by the religious fundamentalists. Their zeal for their one version of the truth, their hatred of anything that didn't fit with their world-view, the hypocrisy of their own actions, their ignoring the teachings at the very heart of their religions turned the general population away from organized religion and toward a new movement: Spirituality. This new movement doesn't have the organized structure and leaves it up to the person to find his peace with god.

Your views about religion, and especially the fundamentalist versions are right on. My views exactly. I have realized for a long time that for a person to embrace a faith, reason has to be excluded. I wasn't the first to make that discovery.

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed.? Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."
? Martin Luther

HMM, I find this very interesting reading for sure. Where to start with my response except that you are as ignorant the Mathes is. Man created the diversities in religion that exist today not God, or as you refer a deity! I can not repsect a religion that tells its beleivers that they will have 70 virgins waiting for them in Heaven if they die for their cause in martrydom. I wonder if that stills happens if the suicide bomber is a woman. When it comes to religion people must have faith in the institution itself not the people running or leading it. I know the Catholics did horrific things, PEOPLE of every religion do. But don't worry MR Shalom I don't blame you for killing Jesus; I try to remind my more evangelical friends that Jesus was JEWISH!! As far as the Koran goes Jesus was not just a prophet, he was the messiah. It is not our fault you guys missed out on your long awaited savior, but its not to late. I simply point out the numerous miracles, unexplained by science or medicine, that have occured around the world in his name. Including the stigmata and miracles of the eucharest. Read up on Padre Pio sometime, maybe you'll change your mind. This does excuse Mathes and his so called Christian friends of their actions. They are hypocrites who have failed to see the true meaning of Jesus words. A total shame really. But at the end of the day when the next great religious war breaks out it will be the Muslims and the nation of Israel who fire the first shots.

I do however love these muslin experts trying to explain the concept of jihad. You should try explaining it to friends Nasrallah and Bin Laden. My problem with these so-called jihadists is that they should just come out an fight. But they hide, and bomb, and kill innocent people. They are cowards of the highest order. Not since their fight againsy the Russians have they come forward to fight. Funny I don't hear the leaders of the free world saying that Muslim nations must be wiped off the face of the earth. But does the leader of Iran, the Imans in Iraq, Syria, and that coward Nasrallah say that of Israel?? As far as their patriotic duty. Well is you can't pledge your alligaince to your nation they get the f%$^ out! I'm sure you can move and be happy somewhere else. By the way Mr Mathes, your still a moron and a disgrace to your faith. I would love to see the look on your face when you meet your maker and he asks you "why do spread so much hate against my children?" Because we are all Gods children no matter what god you believe in.

I do however love these muslin experts trying to explain the concept of jihad. You should try explaining it to your friends Nasrallah and Bin Laden. My problem with these so-called jihadists is that they should just come out an fight. But they hide, and bomb, and kill innocent people. They are cowards of the highest order. Not since their fight againsy the Russians have they come forward to fight. Funny I don't hear the leaders of the free world saying that Muslim nations must be wiped off the face of the earth. But does the leader of Iran, the Imans in Iraq, Syria, and that coward Nasrallah say that of Israel?? As far as their patriotic duty. Well if you can't pledge your alligaince to your nation then get the f%$^ out! I'm sure you can move and be happy somewhere else. By the way Mr Mathes, your still a moron and a disgrace to your faith. I would love to see the look on your face when you meet your maker and he asks you "why do spread so much hate against my children?" Because we are all Gods children no matter what god you believe in.

I'm amazed at the amount of traffic this still generates. For the record, Tim, you might also check the Bible on references to swearing an oath.

If you look up Rick Mathes at snopes.com (a website that uncovers hoaxes), you'll find that he invented the imam, and probably much of the rest. There was no Muslim imam at this program for prison volunteers. An inmate was recruited to present a summary of Islam's message, when no Muslim clergy could be found to take part. In short, it's B.S., just as I expected. This scam has been circulating for three years. Time to call a halt to this fraud.

who care about the color of your hair!!!! personally I think your its all a bunch of crap!!!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

All this Mathes episode confirms is that the largest and by far the most destructive form of mental illness known to mankind is religion.

I think Mathes probably woofed most of his editorial, as most profound religious (and political) messages are heavily doctored and spun from the usually less colorful facts.

Nonetheless, in unintended defense of Mathes's premise this must be said: Regardless of what the internecine, endlessly interpretable verses of the Quran say - insofar as any one analysis of them may ever be more accurate than another - the reality is that the radical extremist, theo-political fringe of worldwide Islam has interpreted the Quran as mandate and excuse for everything and anything they wish to do, which includes the large-scale random killing of 'infidels' in the name of Allah.

Ergo, though Mathes probably invented most of his 'shaming' account, his point that people acting under the self-avowed aegis of Allah and Islam are still a deadly and growing threat remains a fact.

Christianity once had it's day as the great excuse for evil, but today it's Islam's turn in to be the vehicle for the dark insanity of cloaking one's hate, bigotry and power lust in "holy" excuses.

William Slusher
better2lightacandle.blogspot.com
Lifescarredveteran@yahoo.com

The first paragraph to this exchange really sounds atypical of the "inclusive" ideology often issued by the mainstream often anti-Christ press. The idea that it is arrogant to think one's God, is actually "the" God is nonsense. If we are to believe their is a God, then we must believe that this God has a standard, as do we, who are fallible. You don't allow just anyone into your home. Colleges and Universities routinely turn hundreds of thousands of would be hopefuls away every year, because they have a "standard," likewise, military and professional athletic organizations. Thus, our greatest mission on this earth should be to find the way, i.e. God's standard; be it Jesus Christ,Mohammed, or Moses, etc. Everybody can't be right. The fact is religion is a man made concept: "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."(Mark 7:6-7).

One person on this blog referred to fringe (extremist) Christians being willing to kill anyone at a family planning clinic. That could be used by others to imply that this is true of all Christians. He made 3 good points! I am a pro choice born again Christian. Mr. Mathes is a type of Christian who make us all look bad through his misunderstandings or distortions or lies. Let's suppose he was right about (most or all) Muslims believing they get blessed by God for killing nonbelievers. He has not proven it! Support truth only with truth. I have a Muslim friend, who got her university education here. She and her family (of pharmacists and math and English professors) hope to move here to the U.S. I fear for them to do so, because we have home grown bigots, who might harm them./
I believe that no clergy should ever be forced to marry 2 gay people, but if a justice of the peace or liberal clergy choose to, I don't see how that can hurt my or other families. Down with promiscuity! Mr. Mathes brought the issue of homosexuality up, despite it not being mentioned in this blog nor at the prison meeting, as far as we know. I don't doubt that he is a Christian, but he, and the ones who forward his diatribe, make it harder for a liberal, a gay person, a feminist, a person of another religion to read the Bible and to see Jesus Christ as their Messiah and Christian churches and their teachings, as something to consider for themselves.

Hiya Travis,
I have to say after reading through all this mail to date i find peoples response to the original rick mathes article- incredibly informative. and almost impossible not to leave a response, needless to say i think your view is correct. Basically spirituality and finding GOD within ourselves is the way to go in todays dogmatic fundamentalist ways.
PEACE...

MY God people (...mine...as in whomever I choose this particular day)...why does everyone overlook the simple facts?

I decided to Google Rick as well. Surprise - apparently everyone has. Maybe a lot of you are religious. I was just bored. Anyway, while I think he has some interesting points, Travis does as well. After reading this ENTIRE page, I've decided to write my own rant. Likely I'll never be back, but comment away in case I do decide to return. Please.

1. There is a war raging overseas and it has been for many years. MANY years. NO - not the war between the Americans and "all others"...I'm referring to the *Holy* war. Which one? All of them. There are wars being fought because some are considered infidels and thus they "should be shot". There are wars being fought over territory that's been disputed since long before my time (i.e. hundreds of years). There are wars being fought over EVERY bloody reason thinkable. COME ON...enough is enough. There's a simple solution - just quit f-n fighting! Seriously. How difficult is it? You live here, they live there, shut-up and be happy you're alive. Why does some poor kid need to end up in a body bag because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

2. Let's look back on the Catholic faith for a minute. I guess technically I'm Catholic, but I don't really attend church. Why? Because I believe in God, but I don't KNOW that mine is the right one. I simply try to be a good person (aside from my foul mouth). I believe that *someone* or *something* up there exists. I do not believe for a minute that HE condoned the Crusades however. YES - my religion made its mistakes, but that war ended. I'm sure at the time they thought they were fighting for their faith as well, but my GOD they were screwed up, weren't they? I wonder what future generations will think of the predominantly Muslim war that's going on now?

Continued --->

3. Rick, I know you're going to read this. Seriously bud, wake up. God (mine/yours) gave us the ability to choose. The ability to choose was a gift and it allows us to choose right from wrong. Above you discuss homosexuality. WHY? Right and wrong, Love and hate, helping others, hurting others. These are issues to discuss.

continued --->

continuation...
What harm has a homosexual individual done any of us? What harm have they done God? You are no different in your strict and over-the-top interpretation of the Bible than a Koran fanatic. You are no better/no worse, and we cannot look down on you for your misinterpretations. You can argue that point, but how do you know that after thousands of years of translation, that YOU are interpreting the Bible correctly? Do you think at the time they were concerned with sexual orientation? Or were they concerned with survival and/or persecution? What ever happened to "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone..."

Anyway, I am NOT gay. I think it's disgusting. However, I believe in the right to choose, and the fact that we make choices. I don't believe you have the right to say that this choice is abnormal and should be corrected. I know a single gay person only - a female - and she is a lawyer with an additional 2 masters degrees. She uses her position to advocate for the less fortunate, donates more time in a year to charities than I have in a lifetime, and would give anyone the shirt off her back. And I'm more likely to end up in Heaven because I'm not gay? Wow. I like this.

I can go on and on with my thoughts, but I've probably made my point. It's simple; quit shooting people, quit judging others, and live your life as a good person. If your God(s) does not appreciate that you did your best to make the world a better place, then your God can go to hell.

It's late, and I hope my grammar was ok for everyone ..rolling my eyes.. I'm going to bed. Cheers.
bb

Geez you guys, how lame are you.
"When I was a child I played with childish things, when I became a man, I put away childish things...." Clearly when humanity was less, institutions such as religon were necessary to assist people to learn to live to a system of rules. As society advances, the need for such institutions diminished.
Not all society is perfect, but progress can best be made by leaving behind that which holds us back.

A person can learn to live life without exploiting the world and its inhabitants, it doesn't require a shaman to enforce this. Surely all institutions become self serving as there reason for existance wanes....

Now return to your corners and come out fighting.... ha ha ha

Oh by the way, I am a left handed, gay, vegetarian, devil worshipper!

I feel dis-enfranchised by the current geo-political system, and long for a return of the fairies....

Lets take religion completely out of this for an instance.

If your planning on killing, have killed, or declare Jihad, that is your decision! not a religion. Your old enough, wise enough to know what is right and what is wrong. Otherwise your just a criminal...


For all the bombings and killings that have gone on in the world, claiming that your going to a better place and will be worshipped afterwards, I guarantee now one will give a rats arse about you after a very short time.

I do not care about who people want to worship, as long as they don't preach it too me, and respect my decision not to be religious and generally respect the person next to them.

Everybody wants to blame the other religion, wake up and blame the prick that just murdered your Mother, Father, Brother and Sister. Hold them and only them solely responsible.

Anyways back to work!!!

I haven't read the Quran, no I haven't. But I'd take a guess that this guy Prof. Moshe Sharon an Islamic history professor has read his Quran.

And what he has to say does not convince me at all that Islam is a peaceful religion.

QUOTE:
?The difference between Judaism, Christianity and Islam is as follows: Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely, that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving G-d. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sins, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English: ?Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions.? UNQUOTE

FULL ARTICLE: http://israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=112066

I'd say Rick Mathes hit the nail on the head there!

Very nice. Not even the courage of your convictions to put your name behind the filth that you're writing. Very nice...

OK---SO maybe rick made up his story re: the iman.
now the pope quoted some old text that implied Islam promotes violence and extreme actions . ....so what happens??? violence and extreme actions on the part of Muslims occur in retaliation.....
gee, it's ok for ayatollahs/imans and mosques leaders to incite hatred against other cultures/religions (the destruction of ancient buddhist carvings) but other peoples except for a few insane wingnuts don't go rampaging and shooting/killing "non-believers".

I have read all of this with a mixture of amused fascination and perplexed dread. And most of it has made me angry. I just discovered Rick Matthes this morning (thanks to an email chain letter of course), and with the help of Google, I have now discovered there is an entire subterranean discourse about this moron circulating in cyberspace. I don't really have time to go too deeply into what I think about the Matthes article, or much of this "debate" (and that word is woefully misplaced here since this discourse is far from a debate and much more like, as the moderator of this forum has said at at least one point, prostelysizing - and yes I'm sure I misspelled that but I don't care to take the time to look it up and spell it correctly). Suffice to say I disagree with lot of you; when you begin from faulty premises you're bound to arrive at shaky conclusions, and that seems to be what is happening here (although to be fair there have been some comments over the last couple of years - can you believe it! a couple of years this discourse has been happening! - that are reasonable). Nevertheless, my point in posting these hurried remarks this morning is to say I'd like to bring this discourse into the classroom. You see, I teach composition at a major midwestern university, and recently in one of my classes we have been dealing with the issue of religious/racial/ethnic intolerance, and some of the posts by people involved in this Matthes discourse would make for some great reading in my class. In fact, if anyone would be willing to take the time and post a message in which they try to explain why they have made some of the statements they have made that would be great too. I'm thinking of course of some of the main voices in this discourse, the moderator here (Travis), and of course Rick Matthes, and anyone else who'd be interested in doing so. Speech is always constructed through its effects and its motives. That's what interests me, and that's what drives my class. I'd really like to hear some of the motives for the speech constituting this discourse.

I actually just received this email tonight and was appalled at it's contents. Who is this guy to spread this story? I find that when people take one instance in their life (such as this one) and "preach" it to the world as the ultimate truth of others, it is doing more than spreading the truth of Christianity. I believe that it is spreading the word of hate against one person to the next. Stop fueling the hate wars and listening to the views of narrow minded people! It is stories like these that keep the fires burning on this debate. I've read into this whole incident, and in one account, I've read the Imam isn't authentic at all, just another inmate who filled in at the last minute. Like in everything in life, be careful who you are talking to and what you hear as the truth of the people, you might in fact be talking to or listening to a wolf in sheep's clothing!

I recently received the Mathes story from a friend who had it distributed to her entire church via e-mail. My friend was as troubled as I was in regard to the story.

I think I'd be a bit happier if Mr. Mathes had included the date, location, and name of the Imam he claimed to talk to in the story. In point of fact, the names of pretty much everyone present, both clergy and correctional employee. Because while it may not be germane to the story itself, it would lend a great deal of authenticity to the presumably genuine event.

I also think, modern media being what it is, that should any reasonably high-profile member of any clergy definitively state(regardless of cookie-jar looks while doing so) in a public venue that members of their religion's laity advocate the death of non-members as a prerequisite to get into heaven, there might be some sort of official story in the newspaper or be followed up by one network or another.

I mean these things tend make international headlines when someone says it in Iran or Venezuela. Saying such things so bluntly right here in North America, how could this be missed?

As a former member of the fourth estate, my response would be to inquire further details from the only named participant, Mr. Mathes. And were he unable or unwilling to disclose this extremely pertinent, (and possibly probative) information, I'd conclude he made the whole thing up to make christians look good and holy and muslims look homocidal.

Which, when you think about it, makes about as good a news story as killer muslims. 'Prison Ministry Leader Claims Muslims Want To Kill Christians To Get Into Heaven: Confession From Unnamed Prison Imam'.

One last thing, and I'm done. Just one struggling christian man's opinion, but there's plenty in the bible about getting along with your neighbors, turning the other cheek, forgiving (and loving) those who hate you, and striving to be a better, kinder, more compassionate person. I pray every day for peace and reason to break out, enhanced knowledge and understanding, and as a worst case scenario, an amiable agreement to disagree.

Stories like this only engender mistrust and resentment. That's what I'm telling my friend, and suggesting she convey back to her congregation.

God Bless
DML

The god muslims believe in and the Christian God are not the same because of the belief in Jesus. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, and nothing more. Christians believe Jesus was God incarnate. Thus Allah is not the same as Lord and Savior (God and Jesus).

Most of the qu'ran's "peace" statements are merely slightly altered from the bible.

Was it John Lennon who sai it best? ALL WE Need is Love!!!

I am amazed at the amount of Dogma that is present on this page. The arguments are very intellectual and well researched but the core is missing. I believe that God is in your ?Heart?. In that I mean all a persons core values what I would call your ?Heart?. All these rules and writings can be twisted to suit the person?s own agenda. Anyone could take writings from the Bible or the Qu'ran's (hope that is right), and use them to say almost anything they want. I think it is horrible for anyone to take these documents and use them against each other and for there own gain. I could do the same as both Mr. Mathes & Mr.Swicegood and quote the Bible & Qu'ran's all day long but it would be wrong. Instead of fighting about whose book or religion is right, how about learning the VALUES that they are there to teach you. HONESTY, FAITH, LOVE, TOLERANCE, LOYALTY, for example. I think the both of you should go back and LEARN from the Bible & Qu'ran rather than just reading and quoting from them.

I googled this and ended up here. My assesment (for whatever it's worth, which may very well be nothing) after reading through all of this trash is that Mr Mathes and Mr Swicegood should consider ending this matter. They are both basically the same thing, religeous nuts who blindly follow their faith. One comment by Mr. Jenkins about blind faith "Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense and understanding" sums up both of their viewpoints nicely. As far as Mr. Swicegoods comment to one correspondant who did not supply his name, I might point out that Muslim fundamentalist have made even americans realize that religeous nuts could be fatal to our health. I suppose you may take some pride in that! Ralph

Me? A "religious nut"? Wow... I've been called a lot of things before, but a religious nut isn't even close, Ralph.

Islam does state about how noble it is to kill someone not of your Muslim faith. A fact!! Just because retarded popes and others killed and hate in the "name of religion" does not mean that's what Christ preached!!! Christ died on the cross at the hand of His accusers. He didn't wack their heads off. Christianity is the only religion where God is reaching down His hand for man to take it. All others are about men trying his hardest to reach up to God. Actually, the only time "relgion" is used in the Bible is negatively. It's not about religion, it's about a relationship with God. Truth is truth. You can't create it, just discover it. Those who truly seek out God, not retarded man made philosophies or lies, WILL FIND HIM. God doesn't play hide and seek with us. You just have to get over your bad self to recognize He's there. He knows an honest heart and honors one. You can think and intelectualize all you want, but that won't change the truth. You can't create your own, truth already exists. Only God Himself can reveal that to you. "Christians" who screw up God's message end up hating those who are not like them. "Christians" who truly follow God's message end up loving them. Muslims who truly follow Alah's message, well that's for you to study and figure out yourself. Love is not the core of their message towards outsiders. The One True God's is.

The bible does NOT teach that the being poor means you are sinning. And how do people believe that Jesus was not killed? HE WAS CRUCIFIED along with two others. Jesus loves you so much he gave his life so that everyone can be saved even people like Hitler and Saddam. All you have to do is accept his offer. GOD BLESS ALL!

Well, I wasn't really planning on posting, but well...here I am...for whatever it's worth...

It's really interesting how so many are posting about how important it is to love, but then they are so mean to eachother. This is a real shame, because hatred stems from hurt that is not helped. The world is already hurting so badly, but even here, we stab eachother or attempt to smother others into our own personal way of thinking, rather than truly try to understand eachother. One can't draw a whole and accurate conclusion about one over a few remarks that one says. There are so many different ways that someone can mean something, and even more perspectives that someone can be coming from.

This goes towards both Rick and Travis as well as others who have commented. It goes to Rick because he seriously over-generalizes about various people that he knows nothing about individually and it goes to Travis because he is set on ridiculing and insulting Rick and his beliefs and because he is very abrasive towards those that have said unfavorable things about him. Both Rick and Travis began this whole thing with a tone of acceptance of all, but once in the nitty gritty, true colors started to show. What more is to be said than... they're human! We could all have the same finger pointed at us at some point in our lives. It is hard to accept a challenge to our beliefs... and it's even harded to seriously consider what is being said.

We will all never like every choice that everyone makes. However, we must realize that the choices others make are NOT within our control. All we can do is control our own choices. I believe that Ghandi said it best when he said, "Be the change that you want to see in the world."

If you want there to be more tolerance, then be tolerant. But do you really mean tolerant? Or maybe do you mean respect? That is not something that is easy to do, but if it is something you want everyone else to do, it is important to realize what you are asking and live what you are saying.

... So what is good? What is bad? Where did you get these ideals from? If from a book or a prophet... then one might ask why most religions hold many of the same beliefs. LOVE, COMPASSION, PATIENCE, PEACE, etc.

If someone is not respecting others and if this is something we might actually be able to help change, then maybe it is worth your efforts...permitting that you are not attacking the person doing "wrong" as well.

Why? It's simple... each person is precious and a life worth caring for. All life is precious. And it's not up to any of us to decide who is dispensable and who is not. Not one of us is better than anyone else (although we might like to think we are)

Don't judge people PERIOD.

Life is decidedly complicated by many. And it is complicated because people will not unify to care. They are too busy arguing HOW to care. It is not simply good and bad... it is good, better good, best good...and I believe this is grown out of the sincere love within us that is simply sincerely concerned, but misdirected.

If respect is the desire, then respect. If someone is not being respectful then feel free to make the choice to kindly remind them to respect. But you will not remind someone of the importance of respect if you, yourself, are not first respectful. If they choose not to listen, that is their choice, and something that they will simply have to deal with. The consequences are laid out behind every choice...

Peace and love to everyone one of you. I hope that my posting was of some use.

Dixie, thank you! Your posting was, indeed, **of some use**. The 2 comments which spoke to me most clearly were, **Hatred stems from hurt that is not helped**, and **Be the change that you want to see in the world**.

"Trusting only in the merits of my Saviour to gain Heaven..." (Shakespeare paraphrase)

Jeanne

Jeanne (continued): Because I'm new to blogging, I believe I inadvertently left my e-mail address for all to see. NOTE: Any mail on this topic sent to that address will be labeled as SPAM and will be deleted as such.

Jeanne, your email will only be displayed to me as the site administrator. Have no worries over getting any Spam.

And Dixie, you are correct. I've been rather harsh in some of my responses which has dulled the arguments I've made in them. On the other hand, some of them are just rather funny if not blasphemous.

I think it is self-evident that all humankind are born with the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (yes, I plagiarized the Declaration of Independence, my statement is not a new idea). If you are human, then you are responsible to respect those rights for all your fellow humans; not just for Christians, or for Buddhists, or for Moslems, or any religious, ethnic, regional, national, or other grouping of humans. If you choose to believe in or follow a specific religion or way of thinking, that is part of your right to the pursuit of happiness, your happiness. But, just as with all your choices in life, you are responsible to accept the consequences of that choice. Most people decide to make their own choices and then do not recognize that their choices directly produce consequences, or don't want to accept ownership for those consequences. People tend to rationalize that their not responsible, rather someone else or government or is. Ask yourself a few tough questions, such as: Am I helping all the children in the world get a basic education in philosophy, science, math, language arts, art, and music, so they can have enough information to develop their own understanding of life and make their own informed choices? If you aren't expending some energy to help to do so, why aren't you? Is there sufficient evidence that my thinking is the only "right" thinking about the universe and how it "works", in other words, is there one Creator or one official, undeniable book of God's word or is man's interpretation of what can be seen, heard, touched, smelled, and tasted the real deal, or are my personal belief in what can't be seen, heard, touched, smelled, and tasted the real deal? Are all those points of light we see in the night sky coming from holes in a tent with a really big light bulb on the other side, so humankind should only consider all information as Earth centric? Or, are those lights actually stars, with a nearly infinite number of planets orbiting around them? If so, is our planet Earth the only important, or meaningful planet; in other words, are we all a little too tunnel visioned and self-centered in petty bickering amongst humankind? Given all the comments in this discussion that Travis has so graciously sponsored (I mean that, I am enjoying reading the diverse opinions of the postings), the last two question you should ask of yourself is: (1) Am I actively making choices that allow all humankind to enjoy their rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness or am I one of the humans abusing the rights of others, and (2) Am I ignoring that I am a human sharing one little rock in a very, very large rock pile, in other words, shouldn't I be a whole lot more concerned with helping my fellow humans get as much awareness of philosophy, science, math, language arts, art, and music as possible, rather than constantly pointing fingers at them, blaming them, arguing with them, and belittling their beliefs?

I think the one thing that is most evident here, above all else, from reading all these responses, is that there are obviously several different paths, but we are all, in fact, striving for the same end point--truth. As many different personalities as exist here and in the world, so there are that many paths to truth, enlightenment, God, Allah, what have you. God is not a mathematical equation, there isn't only one right answer. What may be right for you, does not fit me. In the end, our path to Truth is just that--OUR own path to Truth.
I can no more easily walk your path than you can walk mine. But if you walk in peace, you've made it just a little easier for me to walk my own path of peace.

Namaste

I don’t know who Rick Mathes is…He should have asked me…smile…I am surprised that there are still people out there that have not seen the great impact that Islam has had on the thinking of mankind. Its reputation for cultivating righteousness is second to none. Yet, just like in all of the other religions…there will be a day of Judgement. None will avoid that day.
Islam is a religion of Peace.
The Quran says that God-Allah will judge the Jews by the Torah, The Christian by the Gospel, and the Muslims by the Quran…and any that believe in God and the last day will neither have anxiety nor grief….smile
The Quran says that God try’s Man with what he gave them. It does not say Kill people that don’t believe as we do…that is just the rhetoric of preachers that lost the steam of appeal with their flock…so the are pointing the finger of condemnation at Islam---which they know nothing about…they take everything they hear out of context…
As for fighting…we are advised to fight those who fight with us. We are never advised to be the aggressor…the aggressor is an oppressor, and the Quran says that “Oppression is worst than Slaughter.” If one of these pseudo intellectuals would have a humble state of mind and read the Quran with an open mind…the way most Muslims read the Gospel, the Torah, the Bhagavad-Gita, and the Vedas…they will find that it is intrinsically familiar to the primary human essence that they recognize in their very natures…plus much more.
How and why do they judge us poorly without knowing how our Holy Book advises us to behave in the life of this world? All Religions are on trial today. The madness in the world is the sort of test that proves whether or not a persons religion is being practiced correctly or not. So far, in my opinion everyone is failing…Muslims, Jews, and Christians…the reason why we all are failing is because materialism is put before God…Many people don’t trust God for every phase of their lives…they only trust God if the Plane they are in is about to crash.
Most people forget that God created fluids that stimulate and transforms the sperm cell into a fetus. Then He initiates the walking reflex, blinking, the breathing, and several other reflexes that we need to function in this world. We are placed in a safe place for 9 Months. During that time we rely and are at the mercy of our Dear Creator. But, when we come to the earth, and grow to be strong…we believe that we are the cause for the good in our lives. We forget that all of our provisions were her waiting for us to utilize them…and our Creator ask that we be thankful…sadly, many people are forward or scornful of that fact.

We all must return to the basics…Belief in One God, Prayer, Fasting, Charity, Collectively seeking Gods forgiveness.
The Quran has opened and continues to open the intellects of mankind daily…It says that Allah exercises Universal Power every day. He surrounds eternity and has No equal. It encourages good and forbids evil.

Travis,

You know as well as anyone who has any sense that all you are doing with my article is drawing attention to yourself. You are willing to go to the lowest level for your self-gratification.

Dear Reader,

Go to www.MissionGateMinistry.org under "Allah or Jesus" for the truth that Travis seems so fond of twisting and then let him know what a fool he is making of himself.

Travis,
Get a life of your own and stop borrowing others.

Or do you have a life of your own?

Rick,

Right On!!

For all involved in the discussion above, I pray. I pray we all at the very least acknowledge the fact that WE are not the ones who decide how or through whom we return to God's grace. WE made the decision to turn from Him - I don't believe the Garden is merely a story told for the entertainment of those who wish to read it. I believe it is history told to us to account for the state of the world since the fall of man. Is there any doubt we are fallen? Look at the discussion thread above and tell me we don't have anger toward one another, that at times regresses to borderline hatred toward one another and other's beliefs. WE turned from God who created us and the universe we live in (His signature is everywhere you look - but you have to look!). HE created a plan for us to return to Him - give us one of our own, yet part of Him, to provide not only an example of how to treat one another ("Love your neighbor as yourself," Mark 12:33 - and then He showed us how to do that by dying for all that believe in Him) but a pathway back to His grace by covering each of our sins. All WE have to do now is ACCEPT His gift, His path, and we're back with Him.. Evangelism, although sometimes over-zealous and harsh, at its heart is a sincere attempt to share the good news of this act of salvation with others. Not by mistake, God has commissioned us (mankind) to be the bearers of His message to each other. Unfortunately, we are fallible (the messengers) deliverers of an infallible truth (the message). Please forgive us Lord for doing it wrong at times, and I pray that we do it right enough to see multitudes return to your grace!

Travis,I feel very sad for you. 2Corinthians 4:3,4 says that the truth about Jesus is hidden to those who are perishing, and that the god of this world (Satan) has blinded their minds so they cannot believe. I will pray for you and all Muslims that you will overcome your blindness by God's grace and mercy. I want to tell you some truths. I can fully support these truths, but it would take hours which I will gladly do later; for now I will just list them. First, Jesus did die for your sins, was resurrected on the 3rd day, and is alive today on His throne in heaven. Next, Islam is a cult -- a false religion with its followers destined to spend eternity in the fires and torment of hell with absolutely no hope of ever leaving hell. Next, Allah is a false god -- a moon god. Allah has no more power or deity than a blade of grass. Get real about what you are worshiping. Next, Muhammad was a false prophet who did not die for you and was a murderer and thief; his bones are still in his grave and his soul is in hell. Next, Islam is a religion of violence and murder and always has been. When was the last time a Christian or Jew blew themselves up with a suicide bomb and said, "Praise God for letting me murder these innocent people." Islam is a religion for those who are ignorant, angry, filled with hatred and a love of evil. That is why it is growing rapidly in prisons and 3rd world countries. Islam is a religion inspired and controlled by Satan, who is the god of this world, as the Bible so speaks. Next, Jesus is returning again and will do so very shortly. Those of you who reject Him and His offer of salvation will face Him at the great white throne of judgment, and you will spend eternity in hell Enough said. I doubt if you will even post these truths. I will pray for you and all Muslims, but seriously, I doubt that your hearts of stone will soften to receive the truths of God's Word and of Jesus. But there always is hope. May you be blessed by the true God -- the God of the Bible.

Wayne, I would invite you to go back and re-read the New Testament and pay special attention to two things: Paul - the man who created modern Christianity by deifying Jesus - was no better than your claims of Muhammad. If Paul went on to be so influential, don't you think it's possible that Muhammad found God in the same way?

Second, pay special attention to John, Chapter 8. I'll hope your ears are open to receive the message there.

Why do you people try to talk tothis neandethal? He has no clue about true Christianity. He is filled with hate and fear. He can disguise it however he chooses but it doesn't change a thing. Much like the American public. Give them an enemy to hate and they are happy. It is all so silly and so un-Christian, don't give this guy a platform, please.

There's a cautionary show biz maxim: "Never go on stage with animals or children -- they'll steal the scene every time.
hat's certainly the case with Debbie Allen's newest musical, "Alex in Wonderland," commissioned by the Kennedy Center and running at the Terrace Theater through the weekend.
The title character, Alex, is played by Kyle Jones, a talented, pint-sized charmer. He acts. He belts out songs. He lights up the stage. And when he taps with a "grown-up" he blows her away with relaxed easy grace. Talk about a scene stealer -- the adults don't have a chance when he's around, and much of the success of the show hangs on his vibrant performance.
But there's a bit of mystery about this young man. Most of the children in the large cast of dancers are seasoned performers. Their bios usually indicate their age -- "Arrington is an 8th grade student," "Chelsea is an 11-year old dancer," "Bethany is a proud 17-year old student." Kyle's bio only tells us he "recently relocated to California from Detroit" and he has appeared "locally, nationally and internationally." Could this diminutive performer be older than he looks?

In short, Jesus leads to life, to getting along, not killing. It`s the Muslim way of killing that Mr. Mathes was getting to with the Muslim cleric. Whoever wishes to go to the Muslim extremists and pour their heart out to them for forgivness , please do. And watch how they forgive you.any religion is to be for good. SO WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THIS SPLINTERING?

Yes... Christianity is definitely one of the largest cults in the world. How narrow minded and ignorant it is that Jesus-loving Americans think that it is just the other people who are brainwashed or have "blind faith" to their creed. Any book that gets blindly followed has the danger of being misinterpreted or used for power. This is ESPECIALLY true for the bible. Faith based on fear is the foundation of belief for all Jesus-lovers .... have fear and have faith or ... you are going to hell! Of course the true irony is that all the Christians who voted for Lucifer Himself! (The hypocrisy blows my mind). It is ignorance like this in Islam AND Christianity that fuels hatred and misunderstanding between cultures. I know Islamic people who I like a whole lot more than many of the brainwashed Christians I know. I think the guage is ... how brainwashed are you????

I think the discussion has gone a long way beyond the original triggering subject. A much passed on e-mail concerning a prison discussion/seminar. The part of the seminar that bothers me is the response/non-response by the Imam. It is true that many Mulla's and Imams are following the issued fatwa by teaching that all non-muslims must be either converted or killed...by whatever means necessary.

Any intelligent person can find a passage in the Bible, Koran or Torah to prove whatever the person wants, especially when taken out of context. Preaching in the church, mosque or temple that God/Allah wants us to kill all non-believers is not only morally wrong but stupid. A dead person can never be convinced to convert! What bothers most ordinary people is that the so-called moderate Muslims don't seem to want to help clean up the act of those who are considered "extremist".

I find it difficult to understand why you think Christians should not be intolerant? We are called to judge other believers, we are called to proclaim our faith both verbally and by actions. And yes, love is the calling we all should ascribe to. Jesus does say, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, no one shall come to the Father except through Me." And I want to add that all the leaders of Jesus' day would have had to do would be to present the rotting corpse and there would be NO Christianity. I can only pray that, like Paul, God will provide you with a Damascus experience that will correct your theology (or mine). And like Paul I believe that if my faith is false that I am to be pitied most. I belive this because my life belongs to God and, by my reckoning, I would give my life for the triune God I serve.

I'm a foreing woman that lives in this wonderful country (The USA) and thanks God everyday for it. When I encounter people like you that behaves as if they know everything and are so "idelist" it just makes me think how sheltered you are from the rest of the world, the world that I come from. If more people thought like you, this country would not be the land where a lot are willing to risk their lives to come to. My english is not as good as yours but I can guarantee you that as pretty as your vocabulary may be, you have a LOT to see (with your own eyes) and learn from.
IS A DAMN SHAME THAT A NON BORN AMERICAN COULD HAVE MORE PRIDE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT SOMEBODY THAT WAS BORN AND RACE IN THE US.

Reading the comments on this site reminds me of two children bitterly fighting over which is better, Santa or the Easter bunny.

Give me a break, the Christian God hates and tortures. IE: Casting sinners into a lake of fire for all of eternity.
The Islamic God Hates and Kills. IE: "Give tidings, O Mohammed, of painful doom to those who disbelieve... Slay the idolators wherever ye find them... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah." - The Koran

There is no such thing as a tolerant religion. You have zealots and the others that pretend to understand the books that they say are divine. So we have a choice the zealots or the stupid.

When your "God" learns not to hate and kill.
I might listen to you talk about love and peace.

Dear Mr. Mathes: We all know about the recent 'imperialism's'. I wonder if you would elaborate on Arab/Muslim imperialism circa 750, that conquered the territories from Persia to Spain? and built a mosque over the Herodian ruins!

Mohammad is dead.... Budha is dead.... only Jesus Christ was raised from the dead and is the only living God and the only name by which we may be saved. For God so loved the world that He sent His only son that whosoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life.

Yes, God has sent his representatives... Abraham, Moses, Elijah..... but nobody can represent you like you yourself.... so God stepped off of the glory flashing, rainbow-encircled throne and came himself... He dressed himself in a robe of flesh, though He was rich, He became poor for our sakes. He came that we might have life and we might have it in abundance, to the full. He took your pain, your punishment (the punishment of the world was upon Him). That's love.... that's a parent's love. He came and he died for us so we wouldn't have to. That's the heart of God toward you. Since the beginning of time, all God has wanted to say to mankind is, "I FORGIVE YOU" and he said it... from the Cross...

This gift of grace is just that... it's a gift... it's free and available to any who will receive it. How sad to leave such an awesome present just sitting on the table without even picking it up to see what's inside! God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. This would be my challenge to you before you speak off the top of your head without knowledge.... Find the Lord (before you need Him) seek him, while He may be found. I stand at the door and knock, He says, and if any man opens the door, I will come in and dine with Him... isn't that awesome... isn't that what we do with our friends.... sit at table and sup and talk with them? He is a wonderful God, a loving father, and anyone who knows Him would never turn from Him, deny Him, or speak so ignorantly of Him.

But there's coming a day, very soon, when He will return for His own, and then everyone will see Him, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. And this is the confidence we have in Him, that if He has promised it, He is faithful to perform it. He is not a man that He should lie, but He is the God, who loves all of His creation, who makes the rain to fall on the just as well as the unjust, the good as well as the evil. Who's eye is on the sparrow, and so I know, He's watching over me. I know Him, but the amazing thing is that He knows me.... and he loves me anyways!

Whew! That was a lot of reading. Unfortunately people who know very little and pretend to be experts posted the majority of it.

Regarding the debate on Islam vs. Christianity...I would like to ask if you'd rather live in an "Islamic" country or a "Christian" country?

That seems to be an odd question...doesn't it? But think about it...all this rhetoric has a final product. The final product is how we are living our lives.

Please feel free to recount the benefits and drawbacks of each.

Anybody want to start?

This is a lot he said, he said , she said, she said stuff.

Wheather the conversation took place or not the statements are in fact true, If the koran doesn't teach death to the infidels there are a lot of Imans and islam believers that live by this. Now, those who believe Islam is not promoting this agenda have there heads stuck in the sand or stuck somewhere else. I for one believe God is the ultimate judge of the actions we do, I cannot judge Mr. Mathes on wheather this conversation took place or wheather the "Iman" was a prisoner or just a idiot or both, you and everyone must only look at the facts, the Islam world hates us not because we are infidels it is because absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Wow...That was indeed a lot of reading and a lot of different opinions. I too goggled the e-mail I received, and have spent hours reading all these comments. But since I put in all that time...now I'm putting in my two cents, for whatever it's worth, here are my rants and raves.
First, Yea to Dixie (on 1-8-07) I agree that if you want tolerance, we must first learn to be tolerant. And that should include tolerating ignorance, because ignorance does not mean stupid, it just means not knowing. I am ignorant in many ways, but that doesn't mean I can't continue to learn, and yes Dixie none of us are better than anyone else.
Yea to Steve (on 1/07) regarding the "man's interpretation of the word of God" and all the pointing of fingers and belittling others beliefs. People are going to believe what they want to believe...what they were raised to believe...and what they have come to believe through all the lessons life teaches us. Pointing fingers and belittling other people and their beliefs does not make you a better person. The Bible can and is often interpreted in many ways and people do pick and choose whatever verse or passage that supports their current argument. Are we then "using" the Bible instead of learning from it?
My Bible, to me, is a history book. We should all learn from that history so that we are not destined to repeat it (cliche, I know). But my Bible is also my lesson book. It helps remind me of those positive actions I should repeat. And my Bible is also my personal guide book. And when I've done wrong, feel bad about myself, or need some help, I find answers there. When I read the words in red, I find comfort there and then I learn what I should do next. Perhaps I should say I INTERPRET what I BELIEVE I should do next.
Which brings me to Chelles' remarks (of 2/07) Yes, "our path is our own" and "the truth is different to everyone" Just like that old adage that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' The truth is ours to choose to see and understand the best way that WE can.
Thank you to Sue Larson (of 7/23/07) for simply stating your beliefs and doing so without judgement. You reminded many to "seek Him". I believe that THAT journey, THAT quest, and THAT desire to find Him is equally as important as the destination.
To Buz (of 7/30/07) I agree, a lot of reading and about the "so-called experts who posted most of it". To answer your question, Yes, I would rather live in christian country. I am very thankful to have been born in America. Even though I am ignorant and do not profess to know enough about the Islamic beliefs to make my response so political. I do feel that the U.S. is far more tolerant of others beliefs than the Muslims are. Look how many people flock to the U.S. (the land of "freedom of religion") and "escape" their own country of origin. You'd think the rulers of those countries would have a clue by now!

I also believe that the word "God" is used as a universal term to mean "the almighty...the all powerful...the creator...the alpha and omega...or whatever your religion chooses to name Him (ie, God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, Budda, etc). I heard a quote that there are 3 things in our life that we will never know. 1) Where our next meal will come from. 2) the day and hour of our death, and 3) The true name of God.
Therefore I think that it is more important to simply Believe in God, whatever you conceive him to be, than to believe in nothing at all.
I also think that it is more important to be a person of FAITH, than it is to belong to any specific organized religion. I believe if you're a good, kind, decent person of faith who sometimes makes mistakes, that that still makes you a good, kind, decent person who is worthy of being saved. If you are a bad, evil, sadistic person who sometimes does good deeds, that still makes you a bad, evil, sadistic person, but still capable of change.
This is where forgiveness comes in, and I believe that god wants us to change into a person that he can forgive and save.

Personally, I believe that God is simply glad that we are all talking about Him. That people from across the globe are discussing Him, That e-mails keep Him in everyone's head, and I thoroughly enjoy the freedoms I have to do so. I also believe He is often getting a good laugh at all these ideas, and most especially laughing at all those people who are SO SURE that THEY have all the answers.

I believe that overall that this site is a good thing. Whether or not you or I agree with Travis or Mr Mathes, these discussions, all this communication, and all these opinions are good things. They teach us about the many different perspectives, and the huge diversity there is in this world. After all God gave us brains to come up with the many ideas and inventions, He gave us all different colored skin, different features,& fingerprints, different climates, foods, likes and dislikes and yes the ability to chose our own paths. He gave us so many things, emotions, and possibilities that are way beyond my ability to list them all here. I believe that God loves infinite variety!

HOPE is one of the best things He gives us. I believe He Hopes we will find a peaceful way to coexist. He Hopes we will search and find Him. He Hopes we will find peace, be charitable, be faithful, be loyal, appreciate one another for all our differences, and in spite of them...LOVE each other.

I Believe that maybe....just maybe.....it's because Mr. Mathes wrote his opinion in his newsletter, and that it got posted on the web--that maybe....just maybe....it riled Travis enough to write a response--that maybe....just maybe.....it got us all talking about Him.....FOR YEARS ! ! !

God does work in mysterious ways

Now, Isn't THAT WONDERFUL ?!

Wonder and Walk in Peace
From Me to You
Sincerely Sue

Susan Thomson - You claim to have a Bible and read it - but you either don't believe in or know what the Bible states. This is not "man's interpretation" its God's Word - divinely written through man! There is a difference!

Susan, you say "MY Bible..." a lot, but by what you wrote you either do not believe in or know what the Bible actually says! You wrote - "I believe that the word 'God' is used as a universal term to mean the almighty... the all powerful... the creator...the alpha and omega... or whatever your religion chooses to name Him (ie, God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovah, Budda, etc)." *** SORRY, BUT YOU ARE SO WRONG... DO YOU HAVE A BIBLE? THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT BELIEFS AND ACCORDING TO MATTHEW 7:13-14 AND JOHN 14:6 - THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH!

Then you said, "I heard a quote that there are 3 things in our life that we will never know... 3) The true name of God." ***AGAIN, SORRY - BUT YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY KNOW HIS TRUE NAME AND KNOW HIM IN A PERSONAL MANNER. IN FACT, GOD CLAIMS ITS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN. IN FACT, ITS ACTUALLY HIM (JESUS) THAT NEEDS TO KNOW YOU! Read Matthew 7:20-23 - AND THIS STATES THAT HE MUST KNOW YOU AND YOU MUST KNOW HIM (AND HIS NAME!)

Susan then said, "Therefore I think that it is more important to simply Believe in God, whatever you conceive him to be, than to believe in nothing at all." *** SORRY, NO - WHATEVER WE CONCEIVE HIM TO BE IS NOT ENOUGH TO GET INTO HEAVEN. WE CAN'T MAKE UP OUR OWN GOD - HE HAS DECLARED WHO HE IS!

Susan is almost right here... but not quite, saying, "I also think that it is more important to be a person of FAITH, than it is to belong to any specific organized religion." *** WELL, FAITH IN WHAT? IN ANYTHING? IN OUR OWN MADE UP GOD (WHOEVER HE IS?) NO! WE NEED TO HAVE FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE! READ ROMANS, CHAPTERS 1-9!

OK, last statement from Susan that I want to answer... She said, "I believe if you're a good, kind, decent person of faith who sometimes makes mistakes, that that still makes you a good, kind, decent person who is worthy of being saved." *** WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? ITS NOT WHAT YOU (OR I) DEEM TO BE TRUE? WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? THAT ALL GOOD PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN AND ALL BAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL? NO, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT IT SAYS. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT WE ALL DESERVE HELL BECAUSE WE ARE ALL SINNERS AND ALL NEED A SAVIOR. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT OUR BEST 'GOOD WORKS' ARE LIKE FILTHY RAGS. I AM NOT GOING TO HEAVEN BECAUSE I EARN IT. I AM NOT GOING TO HEAVEN BECAUSE I DESERVE IT OR HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO MERIT LIFE WITH GOD FOR ETERNITY! ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT "WE DO" - ITS ABOUT WHAT HE HAS "ALREADY DONE!" READ EPHESIANS 2 AND JOHN 3:15-17.

I too just came across "the email" from Rick Mathes and found this site... too bad its years later. But, since responses are still going on - here's mine! First let me say that I am a Christian who has actually studied the Qur'an or Koran. And, since I consider myself a Bible scholar, I MUST agree with Rick Mather!

I did not read ALL of the responses - but boy were they interesting - especially Susan Thompson who is disguised as a Christian (but isn't.) First, I must tell you that JESUS addressed Himself as God many times and in many ways when teaching about Himself. I will mention a few of them; and give the scripture reference and you can read God's Word and decide for yourselves!

First, (read all of John chapter 8) in John 8:56-58, Jesus declared two major things! He claims that He met and that Abraham actually "rejoiced to see His day!" Obviously, He was speaking prophetically about "His day!" The second declaration made comes in verse 58 when He says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." For saying this, the people took up stones to stone Him - for they knew exactly what He was claiming when He said I AM. He was claiming to be the One who spoke to Moses at the burning bush in Exodus 3. Which means He was also claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... meaning the God of the Bible!!!

Next in John 10, He claims to have the power to "give life," to be able to "save," to "lay down His life for his people" - but also the power to "take it up again," "that His people hear His voice," and that "He and His Father are One." I did not give any verses to go over on purpose - YOU NEED TO READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER 10 OF JOHN!

Lastly, (and then I will move onto what the Father says about His Son) go to Matthew Chapter 7:13-14. This will sum up why Christians are called 'narrow minded.' Christ Himself is talking, and claiming there is a narrow way that leads to life (with Him in Heaven) and only a 'FEW' find it... but broad is the way that leads to death and 'MANY' go down this broad path. He is the only way - which is also spoken in JOHN 14:6 - "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, NO ONE ENTERS INTO HEAVEN BUT THROUGH ME!" So, clearly Jesus CLAIMED to be God! Now we will look at what God the Father says about Jesus! There are so many to choose from, but I picked the following three Chapters! (Read the entire Chapter - not verses!)

READ HEBREWS 1
READ COLOSSIANS 1
READ JOHN 1

Then follow that up with what Jesus says about Himself in Luke 24. READ THE WHOLE THING! He claims that the Books of Moses, ALL of the Prophets (the majority of the Old Testament), the Psalms, and all of the writings were ALL WRITTEN CONCERNING HIM! Everything in the Bible was written about Jesus Christ - according to Christ!

So, when you argue your point - or what the muslims claim to believe about Him - please make sure you read what Jesus actually claimed - before you tell everyone that "He never claimed to be more than a prophet or that the Bible does not state this many times over. You can call Him a liar or a lunatic - about what He said concerning Himself - but you just can't say He never said that anymore because I just gave you a small amount of what is actually written in the Bible.


TO SUM IT ALL UP... IF YOU HAVE A BIBLE, READ IT AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF WHAT YOU BELIEVE! DECIDE FOR YOURSELF IF YOU WANT TO EARN YOUR OWN WAY TO HEAVEN BY BEING GOOD (OR THE MUSLIM WAY, BY DESTROYING MANY LIFES AND BOMBING PEOPLE)OR IF YOU WANT TO JUST BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT HAS PAID FOR YOUR SINS ALREADY AND IS WAITING FOR YOU TO ACCEPT HIM, BELIEVE IN HIM, AND GET TO KNOW HIM PERSONALLY.

I WELCOME ALL QUESTIONS AND WILL PRAY FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS IT. CONTACT ME AND I WILL CALL YOU AND WE CAN DISCUSS EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE STATES ON HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN. THIS IS NOT THE JOE OHMAN WAY, BUT JESUS CHRIST'S WAY! ITS NOT ME WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING... I JUST FOLLOW THE ONE WHOM THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN ABOUT.

I HAVE ALREADY BEGUN PRAYING FOR *YOU* WHO ARE READING THIS!!!
IN HIS MIGHTY GRIP,
JOE OHMAN

Joe, I'm a pretty tolerant guy. Don't believe me, just look at some of the drivel I've allowed to be posted here on my site. One more post (and this goes for everyone) where there are whole paragraphs in caps and I'll delete it as spam.

Now, to your response: do you really want to put all of your eggs in the basket of John, a book that wasn't written until at least one and a half generations had past - possibly as many six? And Paul? The Pagan who had ideas so radical that Peter - the "rock [upon which Jesus] will build [his] church" - could do nothing but quarrel with him?

Sorry about the all caps... I didn't know that was an issue and was only trying to distinguish that which was written by me.

You asked... "do you really want to put all of your eggs in the basket of John, a book that wasn't written until at least one and a half generations had past - possibly as many six?" -- Actually, I put all my eggs in the basket of Jesus Christ, but book of John is just one of the proofs of Who Jesus was and is. John's Gospel was NOT written that long past Jesus's life and was certainly written by John himself. Have you ever heard of Polycarp? Read about him on wikipedia... he authenticated many of the writings that now make up our Holy Bible. He was a disciple of the Apostle John - so yes, I will put my eggs in his basket.

And Paul? The Pagan who had ideas so radical that Peter - the "rock [upon which Jesus] will build [his] church" - could do nothing but quarrel with him? -- Oh, thank God for Paul who got to spend 3 years with the Risen Christ before his ministry started. Here was a guy who was known for killing and torturing Christians - until he met the Risen Lord Jesus on that eventful day while on the road to Damascus.

To clarify something for you... Peter was not the "rock upon which Jesus would build His Church!" Many religions get this wrong, so don't feel bad for doing so. However, Jesus was speaking about the TRUTH in which Peter proclaimed - the fact that Jesus is the Son of the Living God - that He was to build His Church upon. Peter was not yet "the rock" in which he would later be known as. This was the guy who was quick to talk back to Jesus and quick to strike - not knowing the plan of God. He LATER became the rock after Jesus restored him when asked... "Peter, do you love ME" three times.
Jesus was the "Cornerstone" spoken of in the Book of Acts, NOT Peter. Peter was not quite fit to have a Church built upon him - he was more or less just like you and me.

Love the dialogue though... if you read Jesus's actual statement in Matthew and then read about Him as the Cornerstone in Acts, please get back to me and let me know after you do.

Respectfully,

Joe Ohman

"There is one God
He is Holy
There is one Lord
Over everything
There is one King
He is Jesus."
-Chris Tomlin

Dear Travis Swicegood,

I wanted to clarify some things about your comment and mine about Peter. The Greek word for petros is actually “stone” or "pebble" from which Peter is derived. Our Lord gave "Simon" the name Peter at their first meeting (Jn.1:35-42). Andrew, Peter's brother, after spending a single day with Jesus, was convinced that He was the Messiah. Andrew led Peter to Jesus and Jesus pronounced, "You are Simon, the son of John, you will be called Cephas" (Aramaic for “stone”). It is important to note that there is nothing in Peter's actions to merit or warrant being awarded this new name. His name was changed before he even has a chance to speak.

In renaming Peter, the Lord is telling him (as well as us) that Peter's life will be completely changed by his mere act of believing. As with Peter, the Lord already knows all about us in advance and can see the entire course of our lives at a glance. We need to remember the Lord's pronouncement to Peter and its implications: He's looking at the "big picture" even though we don't! It is only His final, comprehensive evaluation of our lives that truly matters.

What exactly is Jesus predicting about Peter's life by giving him the name "stone"? Your (very common) view incorrectly claims that Jesus meant Peter to be the cornerstone of the church, and you (and others) cite Matthew 16:13-20. However, in that passage, Jesus says, "I tell you that you are Peter (Greek "petros" a small pebble or stone) and on this Rock (Greek "petra" a huge rock or mountain side) I will build my church." As I said before, Peter had just acknowledged (declared) that Jesus is "the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.

Jesus is over-emphasizing the fact or truth of Peter's statement. By "this Rock", Jesus refers to HIMSELF as the Cornerstone of the Church (which is documented in scripture: Psalms 118:22, Is 28:16; 1Pet.2:6; Matthew 21:42, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11-12, Eph.2:20), not to Peter!!! Peter himself declares Jesus as the Chief Cornerstone - 1st PETER 2:6-7, This false notion about Peter is not supported by any other verse, in fact see 1st Corinthians 3:11.

Matthew 16:13-20 does point the way to discovering the meaning of Peter's name. Jesus may be the central support in the Church (the universal body of believers in Christ, rather than any denomination), but Peter is a part (a stone) in the overall building or structure. Peter actually declares and confirms this in 1st Peter 2:4-6, where he tells us that what Christ proclaimed about Peter himself is also true of all believers. Christ is the cornerstone, and the Living Stone chosen by God (though rejected by men), but we believers are likewise "livingstones", who are being built up into a spiritual temple for God's service. It is also true that he and the other apostles played a "foundational" role in the establishment of the early Church, for it was for that purpose that they had been called (Eph.2:20; Rev.21:14).

"Peter" is a title which calls attention to the true, Godly humility of its holder in the same way that Paul ("little") does, a title which Peter did eventually live up to. Although Peter means "just another brick in God's house". There is no doubt that the Apostle Peter accomplished much in his life. The point here is that only if we have this genuine humility - the recognition that we need to be dependent upon the Lord and not ourselves - can the Lord make full use of us as he made use of Peter (Prov.3:34; Jas.4:6).

Like so many others i reachesd this site by google search of Rick Mathes after recieving an email. I see so much intolerance here that it is not funny, both by Mr. Mathes and by Mr. Swicegood, as well as many of the other posters. The only thing we should be intolerant of is the kind of violence this type of religious fanaticism fuels. Many good points have been made on behalf of both religions, however, that doesnt excuse this kind of closed mindedness.
Patriotism is what has made this country such a wonderful place to live in comparison to others. Seaandsun says it best, we do live in a country that is so wonderful that sooo many risk their lives to come here as well as to defend it.

Maybe you guys should spend a little more time praying for the answers and less time fighting because you think you are sure you know what they are. Be more tolerant to the beliefs of others and stop the violent words and actions on part of both religions.

Erika, I feel that I have not been intolerant of anything but intolerable points of view. Intolerance would be not allowing the continued attacks and proslytizing as I've done here.

I also don't think you'll ever see me saying that I know what the answers are. I know what they aren't when I see them, but other than the # 42, I have no idea what the answer is.

Got the email today about Mathes' "Christian" victory over the Muslim inmate which led me to this site. I find it very interesting that all the time and energy that has gone into the pontifications and claims of "religious" wisdom posted herein are nothing more than a continuation of the kind of diatribes that humankind has engaged in since the early C.E.

Wouldn't it be a more peaceful world if everyone just realized the simple truth: Religion is nothing more than "Man's" attempt to explain and understand his lonely existence here on earth. This "lonliness" which creates the fear and anxiety of being mortal. Our fear of the unknown beyond this life prompts us to understand and come to grips with this mortality. Thus our "Religions". It can't be that I will just die and be no more...can it? I've got to come up with a theory that will alleviate my fear of death.

To make a long story short, folks, "it" originated in fear and is promulgated and perpetuated in fear. This fearful existence, exacerbated by Religious Dogma, leaves us with no alternative but to seek a kind of relief through false bravado (my god is bigger than your god) expressed by all the different cultures where these religions grew up.

Though the "Big Three" all originated in the land of the Jews, they did not become institutionalized (humanized) until decades after their separate identities had formed. That's when all the trouble began. At one time, they lived peacefully side by side. The growth of the institution, its dogma and its lust for power is when the strife began.

Until we can begin to accept our own sacred humanity and trust in its "Source", the fear will continue. Until we can find the humility to believe we are all one. Until we begin to act as if all this were so, we won't be able to grow up and dismiss the silly claims that any one culture's "god" is bigger and badder than its neighbor's.

Not taking any sides here, but when was the last time any of you heard of the Buddhists starting a war or subjugating its disbelievers.

When everything is "over" let's see who is right, it's not a war between Rick and Travis, it's a war between good and evil. Wonder id Mohamma Ata got his 7 virgins.

Christians need to ask ourselves why Muslim clerics might preach jihad against Christians? Hatred of Christianity is generated by what most Christians falsely teach as the fate of all nonbelievers. That is, all Christians go to heaven for eternity, while all others are condemned to eternal torment in hell. Is it any wonder that other religions do not feel all warm and loving towards us?

While Jesus does lead to life, false Christian theology can lead to the death of innocent children. I refer to children foolishly murdered by their depressed Christian mothers in a futile effort to send them immediately to heaven thus avoiding the possibility of eternal torment in the fires of hell. (So Christianity also has a problem with the murder of innocents).

The fact is that not one non-Christian will suffer eternally in hell! Not even one atheist! God does not hate us, He loves us!

Each religion has their own holy book. Sadly, most Christians have never understood theirs! Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same God; and consequently Satan is battling all of us! One of his methods is getting us to fight each other. Muslims need to fix their internal problems and Christians need to fix theirs! I cannot imagine Muhammad or Jesus being proud that their followers are responsibile for the deaths of innocents!

myth-one: amen on fixing internal problems. This is exactly what Jesus was talking about in reference to the plank in one's own eye.

in Christ, to Joe Ohman. First off, sir. I'd like to commend you for your biblical knowledge. You seem to know a lot about the word of God. congratulations.

However, you claim to be a Biblical Scholar but you said something in your response to Susan regarding her Christianity.

How can you say you are a follower of Christ, and yet pass judgement on to her? The bible says in many places, but specifically in Matthew "Judge not, lest ye shall be judged by the staff and measure that you judge others you shall be judged."

You clearly said - "I did not read ALL of the responses - but boy were they interesting - especially Susan Thompson who is disguised as a Christian (but isn't.)"

What right do you have to say that Susan Thompson isn't a Christian? You don't know her as a person, save for what she says on this website. She clearly is a Christian being that the words in red that she says she reads in the BIBLE are in fact the Words of Jesus Christ. Have you ever read a red-letter bible? I don't think you have followed her around her life and watched her. How do you know she was not saved? The bible says in one of the most popular scriptures in John 3:16 - For He so loved the World, HE gave his only begotten son. So that whoever believeth in Him, shall not perish but have everlasting life? You aren't in her Mind and you don't know her heart. Only God does, and that's whats important.

You are correct in saying that there is only one way to Heaven. Through God, it says in John 14:6 - I am the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the father except through me. Which is in red-letter =). But one of the greatest Glories and gifts that God gave to us is the freedom and will to choose for ourselves. You are in fact erroneous in my opinion judging Susan Thompson on her faith. Just because she didnt mention Christ anywhere in her statement. Does not mean she does not believe. This is a forum for people to list their ideas and their opinions, and as Servants of God from our own understanding have the right and the will to leave out whatever we choose. Hence free will. So just because she did not say she was a Christian straight out, does not mean she isn't. And any judgement on that takes glory away from God, because as you all know. Only God has the right to judge.

In my opinion, we are here to serve God, to do His will and bring more people to Him. Its not our job to Condemn others for their beliefs.

Joe, You said your a bible scholar correct? Well, as a bible scholar, isn't it your duty to take all of God's word into account when responding? I myself am an ordained minister, and have a duty and a privilege to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but I make sure that What I say comes right out of the bible, I don't pass judgement and judge other's without knowing them. I'm just a bit confused, seeing someone so in tune with God's word could miss one of the most important scriptures in the bible. Judge not!

That's all I have to say.

Blessings!

in Christ,
Matthew Thomson

Matthew,
The bible is replete with the command to "judge in righteusness" forgive the misuse of quotes :-) This is all very simple, really. who remembers "can't we all just get along?" not if the guy saying it chooses to drive through the streets of LA at 100 MPH - high on drugs no less.

To the point: Rick Mathes establishes himself in a leadership role, then foments hatred of Muslims on the part of Christians with his email. It may not have been his intent, but it is the result. I haven't seen a profuse apology by Rick, but I have seen attempts at justifying himself. I can understand that, Rick is a mere mortal. His claim to devine insight is proven wrong by the very attitude he presents, or at least it is to me. I reserve the right to be wrong.
Silence Dogood

In regards to Joe Ohmans' opinion of me and my ignorance, (or should I say "wrong") beliefs in God, I have the following points to make;

First, I am a Christian, Baptized and all! But that still makes me, yes--ignorant of many things, but that doesn't make me wrong. It just makes my beliefs, my own. If you (want me to respect your beliefs then you may want to consider respecting mine.) And if you can't respect them, at least tolerate them. I do not profess to try to change your mind about your beliefs, but I do respect yours and I am happy that you have a belief system.

Second, I don't believe anyone's beliefs are wrong..Their beliefs are their own to have or not to have. I believe that God made us all unique, and to have, and to form our own opinions. Our beliefs comes from our life experiences and everyones is different.

Third; I admit, I don't profess to REALLY KNOW the TRUE name of God. You yourself Joe have called Him God, King, Lord and Jesus, Well Which one is the true name of God, and are You absolutely sure. I believe we are not meant to know until it is our time TO know. I think until I know for sure, I'll be content to call Him Father, Almighty, God, Jesus or whatever comes out of my mouth at the time. I think It would make Him happy to be called any such reverent name and that it would make him happy that when we think about Him, we simply think....Love !
(God Loves Me...Jesus Loves Me...He Loves me! Love Ya' back Lord!)

While I respect your right to express your opinion, I found your response a rather mean attack on me personally. That was not a very Christian act of you to yell at me in CAPS! It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, for a so-called Christian to so aggressively attack another person who admits they are a person of faith who believes in God. Wouldn't your time be more productive if you spent it on trying to convert a non believer, rather than trying to get a believer to match the specifics of your faith point for point? BUT since you apparently have misunderstood me, (or lack any respect for my beliefs) I offer a few responses and more points to ponder;

#1) I did read ALL of the postings here before adding my own.
#2) I found positive things to say about 5 other peoples postings and you ragged on negative things about me for 6 paragraphs! (might I suggest you go back and read what Dixie had to say on 1/8/07) I agreed with a lot of what she had to say.
#3) You complained that I referred to "The" Bible as "MY" Bible. Well, it's just my opinion, but MY Bible is mine, (and I'm always glad to share it) But I look to it when I have problems in MY life. I go to it when I have trouble understanding MY world. And I hear Jesus speaking through it in MY head and in MY heart. It is not however the same bible that the Jewish people read (as I understand it, theirs does not include the New Testament) so how then can there be only "THE" Bible? I'm not trying to sound rude, because I would like to hear your view. You also stated that I didn't know Jesus personally, But MY Bible speaks to ME, it teaches ME, and through the word of God, it guides ME. How much more of a "personal manner" do you expect. I expect--that I'm human.

#4) Faith?..I would have thought that was obvious...But in order to clarify things, I have faith in the Holy Trinity. My faith carried me through my mothers death when I was 17. It's carried me through all the tough times in my life, and it when my time comes, it will carry me home to my maker. My faith comes from many sources; it comes from my upbringing and my parents values, teachings and influences. It comes from the miracles I have experienced in my life. It comes from having accepting Jesus as my Savior and having a personal relationship with Him. I do not find faith ONLY in the Bible, and I do not plan on building a stairway to heaven with a stack of Bibles.

#5) (then you quoted me)...Susan then said, "Therefore I think that it is more important to simply Believe in God, whatever you conceive him to be, than to believe in nothing at all." (and you responded)*** SORRY, NO - WHATEVER WE CONCEIVE HIM TO BE IS NOT ENOUGH TO GET INTO HEAVEN. WE CAN'T MAKE UP OUR OWN GOD - HE HAS DECLARED WHO HE IS!

Are you building a stack of Bibles in your back yard?
Would you rather us "believe in nothing at all" ?
--Joe, What about all the little children in this world who have no concept of God yet. Are they condemned, Of course not!
--what about all the Jewish people, the Jehovah Witnesses, and many others whose Bibles don't include the name Jesus, but they believe in God. Are they condemned?
--what about all those who were never taught that their even is a Jesus.
--what about those who are too poor to even own a Bible? For those (and since you like scripture quotes) I will return with only ONE (Mark 10;27) "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible"

If you feel that they are all destined to Hell, because of these examples, then I feel compelled to offer up a prayer right now-- and for you. I pray that you find an understanding of the human condition, of all our imperfections, all of our ignorances and mistakes, along with all of our abilities to
accept and be patient, to learn forgiveness and not judge, to hope, love and cherish each other. I pray that you gain as much understanding of these things as you have in your ability to quote scriptures. (No, Really, I am very sincere about this)
I hope and I pray that a day will come that you will find, inside of yourself, the faith you need to walk without that Bible with you all the time, and walk with God instead. Then you'll walk with faith, and walk in Peace. I pray these thing in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Joe, I would be interested in your thoughts on these items. I believe I'm open minded. I Believe in the messages in the Bible, but I would really like to hear your perspective without the quoting of scriptures, instead respond with the humanity in your heart, and in your soul.

Please feel free to talk openly and plainly, I won't judge you if you misspeak, or anything like that. Maybe we can just learn to appreciate each other FOR our differences and simply agree to disagree.

From Me To You,
Sincerely Sue

Many muslims have told us what they want to do. It doesn't take a majority to make it happen.

You guys can stick your heads in the sand if you like, but there are hundreds of thousands of muslims who want you dead and will pursue a means to that end.

It isn't often that an enemy will tell you what they want to do and how they would like to do it. What will it take for people to listen to what the muslim community is saying when they think no one else is around to hear...

Richard,
Wanting to kill people because they don'r believe in what you believe is at best ignorant. I'm grateful to observe that for the most part all these American hating Muslims seeking my (our) life are too busy killing each other to cause me to fear them. Even if they do decide to "get me" or "get us", I find the clubs they use far less effective than the GPS guided bombs we use. No, I don't waste my time fearing Muslims. I'm much more worried about licensed American Drivers who don't understand the laws of Physics. Ever have a class in Physics, Richard? Since 9/11 over 300,000 Americans have died on American roads. Including 9/11 and the Iraq war, about 6000 Americans have died...due to extremists.

I think every religion has its pros and cons, and they all contain those extremists. I say anything in extremes are usually not good things.

Correct me If I am wrong, But didn't Mohamad preach non-violence? Aren't their millions of muslims in the world that practice non-violence? I thought their Bible said something about Allah being a merciful God?

As I understand it; You are NOT an "infidel"
if you 1) Repent.
2) Establish Regular Prayer, and
3) Practice Charity.

Is this correct? I'd really like to know. because, if so, it seems that there may be some common ground between Christians and muslims and maybe we should all look for the similarities instead of the differences. When all we see are the differences, and attack each other because of those differences--we become extremists.

Extremists seem to forget that they could be wrong, That maybe there is no exactly right way, and they are not the ultimate Judge. In some of the previous posts, I would rather believe like Susan does, Rather than Joe.

I would like to sit down and chat with someone like Susan, who appears to be a forgiving, non-judgemental person who chooses words like "I think", "I believe" and "Maybe" Rather than an obvious extremist like Joe (who KNOWS IT ALL and knows for a FACT that no one else could possibly be right) who uses phrases like "SORRY, NO", and "YOU ARE SOO WRONG". Come down from your ivory tower Joe, because it really is OK to be human.

I am a Christian, no matter what anyone thinks. Since I feel that God knows me
by my prayers, by what's in my heart,
my head, and yes even in my actions. And my actions include trying to learn more about the muslim faith before believing that, they, (just like us Christians)may also include those who are fanatic and have extremist members within their religious base.

My first, gut reaction, is no, I do not think it is OK to kill anyone in the name of God. I don't think it honors Him, I think it hurts Him, and us. But I'm certainly not going to kill them before they kill me! That just makes me ashamed of me.

Am still interested in answers to the questions I asked in the beginning of this post.

Thanks
Louise

Louise

Your information sounds familiar, but I'm not by any means an expert. But I too would also be interested in the answers to your questions.

Thanks for your remarks, but I am wondering if I wasn't a bit harsh with Joe? while I agree with you about extremism, I also feel there is a "fine line" between extremism and simply being very passionate about our beliefs. Being passionate is great. but being pushy and forceful about whats right and wrong is too extreme for me. Everyone can face the same thing, have the same exact happening in their lives and yet each of us will take away from that experience something different and uniquely our own.

While I did feel attacked, and when faced with the choice between the fight or flight response, I chose to fight. If I was inappropriate, then I can only offer my apologies and ask forgiveness.

Go ahead and call me wishy-washy, I prefer to be think of myself as learning to be more tolerant.

I believe that it is taking me a long time to become the person that I want to be. But if I can at least take one baby-step each and every day. Then tomorrow morning, and every morning, when I wake up, I can feel happy and satisfied with all my yesterdays.

May we all do something today, to make for someone, a better tomorrow.

Walk In Peace,
From Me to You
Sincerely Sue

Because there is such a long list of comments, I was not able to read them all. However, I read enough to find some comments that i would like to respond to. The purpose of my comment is to clarify, not the conversation Rathes and Swicegood had, but the points some people used in order to support their ideas. 1. At one point i read that Travis said he is not gaining anything from this and that Rathes is - through donations. I believe with this remark Travis (as many other people do) is trying to insinuate that Rathes -in this case- and churches are gaining money from this. i think this kind of comments misleads people to think that churches are (amongst other "negative" things they claim churches do) just trying to get money in their pockets. When the truth is that the money churches recieve is to keep the God's Word alive. Their pupose is not to get rich and luxurious. NO! There are many things a church needs to sustain itself in order for the people in it to be active. The church is a building that needs maintainance and facilities and they need to get paid. The church has people working in it and they have salaries like a regular job. But most importantly, churches have missionary trips and activities that help people in the church send out and share God's Word with others. I am speaking as a Christian whose church involves all its members in any case and for every decision. People...because they are not involve in their church and only went on sundays as a ritual...dont get the fact that there is a lot to their dith and donations. They are contributing to a great cause. Yes, maintainance, facilities and salaries may sound silly to people...but they are needed in order to get to the GRAND GOAL. It's like a soccer team. Think of their equipment. Automatically you think of the gear. But think further. They need drinks and snack during and after the game. So who contributes to that. The parents of the soccer players right? drinks and snacks are like the maintainance and facilities. They are hidden and at times taken for granted but they are there.

I just felt like i needed to clarify this to all because is one of the constant allegations against a church - "that they just want our money." It is not true. And just as this...there are other allegations. I ask people not to gather up opinions of others but to go to church and actually experience...and if you have questions then make an appointment with the pastor. I am sure that if they are following the bible and their mission is as God intended...they will speak freely because they have nothing to hide.

I also wanted to comment the point that God does not want us to have a great life here on earth. And another one that said that God favors the rich and powerful and that being poor is sin. Well both comments are incorrect. THere is so much to living with God, it is hard to explain all in one comment. I'm not rich and many in my chuch arent and i know God is my God and Father and takes care of me and all my brothers and sisters in Christ. He does want us to live a great live and that does not mean we have to be rich. Being with HIm is great and enriching. I dont need any money to know He has giving a great life. Everything is so clear once you are with Him. and i say this because i have been through life without Him. I am a testimony. Be with Him, make God your number one. You will see how great life is and how He has been waiting patiently for you all this time. He is always with you...whether you beleive in Him (and there is only Him) or not.

This is a real passionate discussion. Just for reference check out any of Karen Armstrong's books, Ken Wilber's integral vision, and though a bit controversial Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's lectures. These people are all great scholars and intellectuals regarding subject of religion. I don't see that they have any special preference for any particular religion and yet I found deep insights from their material.

If you Muslims are so great, why do you all come to the USA?
If your culture were so great we infidels would all want to come to your great country, but oh...duh you don't have a great countyr .... so you want ours.
You'll never get it.
Enjoy your sand.

Where do I begin. While I stumbled across this site/blog by mistake, I did take time to read many (not all) of the discussion contained within. For many like myself, religion is a very personal and private issue. How I choose to worship is up to me. Who I choose to worship is up to me.

Sine when was it decided that we need to be preached to by individuals, no matter their education on the subject matter. Religious freedom allow each of us to worship, pray and/or sereve as we deem necessary. The line is crossed in all aspects when my rights to believe as I choose are questioned by any living humam.

Whithin this site are too many people attempting to dictate the belief structure of others.

Excuse my grammar and spelling as its not at a professional level.


If we would all follow these Commandments (call them rules or suggestions if its easier for you) We would not be having this discussion. If you look at especially #7 you will notice that in either religion it says not to kill. Its the misled (on both sides), twisting the word of god thats the enemy here, and that enemy of peace needs dealing with. The only way to deal with them as the quran puts it is death. Death is the only thing they understand as thats how they were programmed, to kill innocents, which is wrong in ALL religions.

I personally believe, (This is based on my research into historical evidence) Muhammad based his teachings on teachings of the time both from Jewish and Christian faiths, he then twisted most of them to fit what he wanted taught. He includes only a reference to Moses, who in actuality brought from God the commandments to both faiths.



The Ten Commandments "BIBLE"
(Exodus 20: 1-17 & Deuteronomy 5: 6-21)

Confirmation in the "Quran"
(Chapter: Verse)

BIBLE
1 Thou shall not take any god except one God.

QURAN
1 "There is no other god beside GOD,"(47:19)
He is the one God; there is no other god beside Him. ......(28:70)

BIBLE
2 Thou shall make no image of God.

QURAN
2 There is nothing that equals (like) Him. (42:11)
No visions can encompass Him, but He
encompasses all visions. He is the Compassionate, the Cognizant.[6:103]

"My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from worshiping idols. (14:35)

BIBLE
3 Thou shall not use God's name in vain.

QURAN
3 Do not subject GOD's name to your casual swearing, that you may appear righteous, pious,
or to attain credibility among the people. (2:224)

BIBLE
4 Thou shall honor thy mother and father.

QURAN
4 . ....and your parents shall be
honored. As long as one or
both of them live, you shall
never say to them, "Uff"
(the slightest gesture of annoyance),
nor shall you shout at them; you
shall treat them amicably. (17:23)

BIBLE
5 Thou shall not steal.

QURAN
5 The thief, male or female, you shall mark their hands as a punishment for their crime, and
to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. (5:38 - 39)

BIBLE
6 Thou shall not lie or give false testimony.

QURAN
6 ..... incur GOD's condemnation upon him, if he was lying. (24:7)
Do not withhold any testimony by concealing what you had witnessed. Anyone who withholds
a testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)

O you who believe, you shall be absolutely
equitable, and observe GOD, when you serve as witnesses, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your relatives. Whether the accused is rich or poor, GOD takes care of both. Therefore, do not be biased by your personal wishes. If you deviate or disregard (this commandment), then GOD is fully Cognizant of
everything you do.[4:135]

BIBLE
7 Thou shall not kill.

QURAN
7 ....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. (5:32)
"You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped."(17:33)

BIBLE
8 Thou shall not commit adultery.

QURAN
8 You shall not commit adultery;
it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.
(17:32)

BIBLE
9 Thou shall not covet thy neighbors
wife or possessions.

QURAN
9 You shall regard the parents, the relatives, the orphans, the poor, the related neighbor, the unrelated neighbor, the close associate, the traveling alien, and your servants. (4:36)
And do not covet what we bestowed
upon any other people. Such are temporary
ornaments of this life, whereby we put them to
the test. What your Lord provides for you is far
better, and everlasting.[20:131]

BIBLE
10 Thou shall keep the Sabbath holy.

QURAN
10 *the Sabbath was relinquished with the
revelation of the Quran. We are told in
the Quran that the Sabbath was only
decreed for the Jews. (16:124)
God, however ,ordered us to make every
effort and drop all businesses to attend the
congregational (Friday)prayer. The Submitters
may tend to their business during the rest of
the day.
O you who believe, when the
Congregational Prayer (Salat
Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday,
you shall hasten to the commemoration
of GOD, and drop all business. . (62:9)




How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Bible KJV Acts 10:38


Paul

Wow...interesting stuff!

...especially since the entire Rick Mathes "Prison Imam" story is phony---check it out on Snopes at: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

...which also shows Travis's alleged dialog with Mathes is...shall we say--totally concocted?

Steve, I'd ask you to re-read the info on Snopes. While it does take issue with the factual content of story, the event in one form or another was happened. The issue is Mathes' portrayal of the event. He took two perfectly acceptable religions and disgraced one and misrepresented the other.

Travis, about the only thing I can say for you is I'll be praying for ya brother when those knees of yours are bent, whether you like it or not, to the almighty one, Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of God (notice allah is not mentoned) on that FINAL day and you come to realize (oh, but it'll be too late) the WIDE path you followed in this life was the wrong choice to make. The problem is brother, it will be too late. Repent now and you can be saved, otherwise all you are doing is heaping burning coals on that head of yours. Selah

Oh My Goodness! I can't believe this has been a running dialogue for more than two years! Like many others, was Googlinh Mathes to see if the chain/hate letter I got had any merit. Wow! Two thoughts occur. 1. This has obviously struck a chord with many to maintain such longevity, and 2. Do you suppose this is what happened in Germany in the 30s? Good people being fed propaganda, feeding fear until it became OK for them to turn their backs on ethnic cleansing? I take issue with Mathes who seems to be a hate and fear monger, (and also seems to have trouble staying on topic, what's up with that?) and pray (to God by the way)that reason descends on all who are still receiving his propaganda. As a Christian I is right wing approach should scare everyone, he is doing more harm than good!!
Beemama

Oh My Goodness! I can't believe this has been a running dialogue for more than two years! Like many others, was Googlinh Mathes to see if the chain/hate letter I got had any merit. Wow! Two thoughts occur. 1. This has obviously struck a chord with many to maintain such longevity, and 2. Do you suppose this is what happened in Germany in the 30s? Good people being fed propaganda, feeding fear until it became OK for them to turn their backs on ethnic cleansing? I take issue with Mathes who seems to be a hate and fear monger, (and also seems to have trouble staying on topic, what's up with that?) and pray (to God by the way)that reason descends on all who are still receiving his propaganda. As a Christian I is right wing approach should scare everyone, he is doing more harm than good!!
Beemama

Oh My Goodness! I can't believe this has been a running dialogue for more than two years! Like many others, was Googlinh Mathes to see if the chain/hate letter I got had any merit. Wow! Two thoughts occur. 1. This has obviously struck a chord with many to maintain such longevity, and 2. Do you suppose this is what happened in Germany in the 30s? Good people being fed propaganda, feeding fear until it became OK for them to turn their backs on ethnic cleansing? I take issue with Mathes who seems to be a hate and fear monger, (and also seems to have trouble staying on topic, what's up with that?) and pray (to God by the way)that reason descends on all who are still receiving his propaganda. As a Christian I believe his right wing approach should scare everyone, he is doing more harm than good!!
Beemama

To everyone that this may concern. All of this talk, and that's exactly what it is, just talk because most people have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to the Supreme Creator and what his purpose was for creating everything and what the final out-come will be exactly.
There are those that are trying to make a name for themselves in the secular world and most if not all are way off base when it comes to identifying who's God is the right one. Well, I know that no earthly man will determine my salvation one way or the other. I often think many are hoping they are the one's that will be the right one's when the end comes. I do know one thing. That is, the Almighty Creator of this earth and all that have existed upon it were put here by a caring, loving compassionate God that will soon have it his way and no one else will change that.

Dane,
I'm with you on this one!!! Thanks.

Dane,
I'm in total agreement with you on this one!!! Thanks for the brief, yet compelling reply. God bless.

I found you because I was seaching for Rick Mathes remarks made to some Iman. After reading his "quetion" to the Iman and now your remarks (per your email to Mr.Mathes), I must say Im on the fence! Which isnt a bad thing, I can see both points of views and agree/disagree with them both. In all, you both gavin me food for more thought! LOL
peace to you.....

Amazing,
So many brilliant minds, so much to think about, so many questions. Travis, has Rick offended you in some way? Or do you just find his methods of trying to reach people with the Gospel of Christ offensive? I am just curious. It seems that this all started over something that at least might have been interpreted as offensive. I guess what I'm asking is "what motivated you to post this?"
BTW very interesting site.
Shalom

Please go to www.missiongateministry.org under "Allah or Jesus" for the unedited article and my rebuttals to those of you who doubt it's veracity.

Rick Mathes

You've made a mountain out of a mole hill and done this by running all over, off track, and gathering dirt that has nothing to do with the original.

Beneath this sort of behavior is either a psychological or mental disorder or, and I believe this is true in your case, anger.

Rick Mathes shared his experience. The correct (and intelligent) response would be to investigate the truth of what he claims to have experienced. In this case, read the Koran - in Arabic. The English translations apparently have many parts removed - the parts that show the hatred for the unbelievers.

Do your research before you criticize. I have and have therefore every reason to believe that what Rick Mathes relates is true.

/Amanda

the thoughts of rick mathes is totally wrong...
based on his side of view, he thinks that when an Islam killed him, means that the Islam man will go to heaven..it wis totally wrong. in Islam, the meaning of jihad means..doing something to protect the religion...so this doesnt mean when an islamic man killed and un-islamic beliver, he will go to heaven..it is wrong...dis happen on god's will...the jihad in war means, protecting the Islam religion from being attack by the non-belivers...protecting yr own religion is a big sacrifice...n the question wether the man who protect it will go to heaven or not is all in god's hand...not will automatically go...i hope i made it clear...

I found this searching to verify if the article was written or not. I read your review and without knowing you have a religion, I would have guessed you were athiest and just trying to argue his point.

He is a Christian, teaching Christian beliefs to people that need to have some sort of belief other then prison life. You however ranting make no sense. He isn't Muslim and him pointing out a very huge difference between the two religions is just what he does.
Maybe you are Muslim, Maybe your not (it was hard to tell) but your pointless arguing would never make me desire to learn more about Islam or Muslim belief. 9-1-1 sure made me want to learn more about CHIRSTIANS though.

Killing is not the answer and I find it funny so many move to the US where there is freedom of religion, yet still believe if you don't believe in Allah, you need to die... Maybe because they kill each otehr in the Mid East? Hum ... Yep, I will go seek out a Christian to talk to, to learn more.

WWJD with the email from Rick Mathe "minister?" Jesus would not pass this email along. God is NOT about Judgment and or punishment. Some ministers are.. Religion is about separation with judgments. God in his mysterious ways sees Rick Mathe as Love going the wrong way, away from God and his message.

Well I stumbled upon this page more then 2 years after I first posted on it, and I'm quite surprised that the discussion is still going on (although it has strayed alot).

Well I just have two new comments:

1. Travis's post are so much more mature and real that most of the others I see, It's really an injustice that some people attack him for his "disbelief", whereas i see him being closer to the truth than most of the ones who claim to have the truth with them. (btw that's not flattery to you eh travis)

2. Alot of the same questions about Islam keep on coming up that I think I answered in within the first 10 posts or so. Questions like "Does the Qur'an say 'kill the infidels'" and "Why don't the muslims do something about the terrorists" have been answered.

I have read most of the posting and I am confused. So will someone that is versed in Islam please answers these questions on a point by point base. Please do not use quotes from the Koran or Bible. Tell me the general thinking out there so I can understand.

1. Is there or is there not a command to convert all to Islam?

2. If someone chooses not to belief what are the consequences and who are responsible to hold them accountable?

3. If a radical (the few) Muslim chooses to kill an unbeliever, what percent of the Muslims support this action and feels that it is justified?

4. Are there situation that Muselums should fear for their lives or welfare when they are questioning their Muslim beliefs (wondering if it is the right one or is another religion is) in public as a discussion in a Muslim Country?

I believe that everyone has the right to believe and have faith in whatever religion and it is a personal experience with you and your deity. The diversity that exists is wide and any religion can find fault in another and be justified according to their beliefs. So please answers those question and please do not quote the Koran or Bible because those are the beliefs you were taught. For every quote from the Koran one can find a quote in the Bible to counter it. I want to know the general thinking out there to evaluate.

When I access this website there is an overlay of printing and photos over part of the text that makes it impossible to read all. Is there something wrong with my computer or has someone altered this website to make it not completely readable. Ive accessed via:
http://www.travisswicegood.com/index.php/2005/01/16/my_response_to_rick_mathes

Is this what bitterness sounds like? It's ok to be angry Travis...but God says to be angry and sin not (not that you care). One point that you made that I can't agree with is that God and Allah are the same. True, the word God and the word Allah MEAN the same when you translate Allah into English however my dear, the Christian God and the Muslim God are TWO VERY DIFFERENT ENTITIES. I don't for one second believe that the chain letter was COMPLETELY correct because it was an ACCOUNT of something that happened and not a DICTATION. However, I do know that the Muslim religion does tell their people to kill those who don't believe in their religion (which would include YOU since you appear not to be a Muslim) and since I am a Christian, I know that my religion does state to love and commands not to kill. You also stated that all those religions killed people, which is true, but just because the people claiming to represent those religions killed, does not mean their God told them to do so. My point is that this world is a sick and vicious world and people from every race and religion are killing every day so for what purposes are you making your point? You're going on and on about this ONE preacher and his "arrogance" that feels like he is called by his God to minister to a certain group of people, but I can't help but see your arrogance and feel that if you felt your God (that is if you had one) was calling you to do anything of the sort, you would do the same. You appear to have this fight in you that I feel, could be used to do so much good if it was aimed at the right cause, yet, you're wasting it. I know one thing, I know that God has tried on many levels to reach you but you've kept yourself so busy fighting Him that you've deafened your ears. I know that you want nothing to do with GOD for your deep seeded personal reasons but you'll be surprised at what you find if you just try to seek one more time. As I said before, my God commands me to love, so I will love you enough to pray for you.

Hannah

PS: None of this was aimed to persecute you.

I am not up on the Muslim religion but viewing the comments, pro and con here, has givien me more insight to the Muslim religion. I am Roman Catholic. I believe in live and let live. For any person or religion to say that if you don't believe what I say or believe in, then you should die, is totally wrong. The most prescious thing you have is your life. Once it's gone here on earth, no one knows what's in store for us after death. Only your beliefs control your mindset on what's after death. My biggest problem is that, according to the Muslim religion, that all nonbelivers must die and that would garantee you a place in heaven or the hereafter. That is definitely wrong. Where's the freedom to choose if that rule is real and observed by all Muslims. If I choose to be Catholic or Muslim, it's my choice. And if I choose to be Catholic, who are you to say I'm wrong in my beliefs? I don't condemn you for being Muslim, what give you the right to condemn me for being Catholic? You can take the Bible and the koran, both are writings from the past by someone who is dead today. All the writings in the Bible and the Koran are someones story of what happened a long, long time ago. A lot of what was written is somenoe's opinion. Folk lore.
My belief is everyone practice their own religion and leave everyone else to their beliefs. No one has the right to take your life because of their religious beliefs or what someone wrote 2,000 years ago.I'll make you a deal, and that is if you don't try to kill me, I won't try to kill you. How that?
End of story!

This not a true story, I checked. It is true that Rick Mathes wrote this, but it not how others who were there remember it. There was no Iman at the meeting, none was available to come and a Muslim inmate did the Islamic presentation (Rick is the head of Mission Gate Prison Ministries).

Versions of this have been floating around the internet since 2003, with some details changed such as the name of the Pope and the Protestant leaders for instance.

I got a bit suspicious because my research shows, that the word "infidels" is used to refer to pagans, but not Christians and Jews.

I realise that the Muslims would like everyone to become Muslims, and some western born people are converting, but Muslims are converting to Christianity too.

Whether it is the fastest growing religion in America (or Australia for that matter), is a matter of debate. I have heard that Buddhism is the fastest growing one and Wicca, this is for the US. Depends on who is talking.

I don't live in fear of Muslims, I don't think any Christian should. Our job is to bring them to Christ, I notice this man doesn't mention anything about that, just trying scare people.

I bet you would find that they are a small percentage of the population and even if they all had 20 kids each, they still would not be a majority in 20 years and each one that converts to Christ is one less.

We get the same sort of scaremongering by certain people here in Australia too.

I have heard it said by some Christian leaders here in Australia that maybe God is bringing Muslims to our country so that they can hear the gospel because it is almost impossible to get missionaries into Muslim lands these days.

So let's our priorities straight, don't live in fear and want to run the Muslims out of town, give them the gospel.

Confused, I can answer you're questions God willing, but please ask the sitemaster for my e-mail and send me there. Cause I'm afraid that the answers get lost in the rubble here.

Hannah,
"...I do know that the Muslim religion tells their people to kill those who don't believe in their religion..."??
If that were the case, then how did Islam spread from one man?

Have any of the bigots who rush to post about Islam read from the links I posted early in this discussion?

I'll repeat it here and quote a piece (for the ones too lazy to click)
http://fatwa-online.com/news/0011018.htm
This is what one of the leading scholars of Islam living in Saudi Arabia had to say about 9/11

"...He (Allah) has also forbidden transgression and aggression and enmity and harm against others, whatever form this may take. He has also ordered the fulfilment of agreements and obligations and has also forbade the killing of those non-Muslims which Muslim countries have agreements with. The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:

((Allaah has forbidden the smell of Paradise for the one who kills a Mu’aahid (one with whom there is a pact or agreement))).

And He also forbade the Mujahideen (muslim soldiers) from killing women, children, the elderly, and the ascetics who are devoted to worship, as well as forbidding the cutting down of trees and so on – despite the fact that the associates of these categories of people may be involved in fighting with the Muslims.

Based upon what has preceded, then we say that that which we believe and hold as our religion concerning what happened to the World Trade Centre in America – and in Allaah lies success – that the terrorist attacks that took place and what occurred of general (mass) killing, then it is not permissible and Islaam does not allow it in any form whatsoever. Islaam frees itself from this action..."

___________
Ok that's all for now...I hope people read this before they rush to post.

May Allah guide you all (or just the sincere ones from amongst you)

P.S. Gabe...are you sure you're Catholic?? You sound more Agnostic to me.

Just another point: Who says that the Muslims don't speak out about the terrorists?

I spend most of my year in Saudi Arabia, and every weekend i see in the papers something speaking out against that corrupt ideology.


http://fatwa-online.com/worship/jihaad/jih004/index.htm

As a born again christian, I read this with
feelings I have in my heart. I certainly wanta
all peoples of this world to go to the place
I have been promised that is being prepared
for me. My thoughts on this do not waiver. I I do not believe I will get to heaven by whatI
accomplish while here. This I do because of
my love for the One Single Son of My heavenly
father, When I think of the physical pain,
the anquish he went through when he could not
see God because he was going through my sins
so I could be with him one day. I have not heard
that any of the other dieties claim this.
If someone kills me because of my True Belief
I will see my Savior. I feel this is so much m
more than other promises. WE are to love our
enemies. Pray for their eternal salvation.

Take this for whatever you feel. I take it as
absolute. I believe every knee will bow. Then
His judgement. Peace to all,

In Response to “My response to Rick Mathes”
Let’s consider the facts.
Form the Koran

Surah:
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame. (verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)


From the Bible

Matt 5:43-48
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
NKJV

These are taken from both the Koran and the Bible.

Travis, why are you and the rest of the Muslims here in America? Why aren't you taking up the fight with the rest of your Islamic counterparts? Is it because prophecy is currently being fulfilled? Quran ( 9:11 ) - "For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle.. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah". Since its early beginnings, the Eagle has been symbolic of the U.S.. May God Bless you!

I have half a mind of deleting that last comment, but I feel it shows the general ignorance exhibited by those who still defend Mathes. The above fictional quote from the Quran is just that, fictional. Guess our buddy Carl didn't heed ol' Samuel Clemens advice.

Ok i have had a look at many sites and what
i have noticed muslims say they are peacefull.
The othere religions say the same, yet dont
take my word for it chq it out for yourself
all the war's going on now today how many
are muslim based. All the acts of terrorisim
are muslim based, and why when muslim's so called
holy warriors capture there so called enemy's
do they kill them in such barbaric ways ie decapitation with small knife, impalement
with a pointed 18ft pole and i stand to be corrected but did i hear one American soldier
had a corosive acid burn off his leg or legs
just to torture him (he was rescued in time by
fellow troops) again not shure how true that
was. So bottm line if true or not, if those words were said by Rick Mathes would the answers be
the same to the questions i belive they would.
There is an answer to this muslims want all there
way's and to be excepted and there rules abided
to there are places where they don't have to change anyone's opinion they are ISLAMIC countries there are lot's of them so why did'nt they live there but they wont becouse they actuly want what they claim they don't. Especialy here in England free housing free health care free cash
benifits these people have put nothing in to my country yet they take as much as they can and to top it off these muslims don't even like us i don't know how it works in the U.S.of.A but im guessing it's simmler or they would'nt go there

I received Rick's chain mail letter via a friend which I immediately responded to with an assurance I would not be continuing the "chain" ...which is what the email was when you think about it.... a chain of ignorance! I was grateful then look to google th is "Rick" person to find people who do "think" and responded accordingly. For those who wish to pass on the message of unacceptance and one of hate I feel so sorry for you that you have such little trust in your selves and what ever "God" you believe in that you think it necessary to "bully" others. Acceptance is what God taught what ever his name may be. Accept others....Do unto those what you would have done unto yourself. Let love reign, not ignorance because it is not bliss!

This is all I have to say, Arent we at war with the musluems? If you don't pledge to our flag, like our country I have a problem. I don't care if you bite heads off bats, eats snakes for your religion but you need to live by our rules of America if you can't do that you cannot run for public office. PERIOD!

I found this site after getting that email from Rick Mathes. I would like to say that I do not follow any religion at all, but as an outsider, see extremists in all religions. The Westboro Baptist Church - their website godhatesfags.com - is a classic example.

Funnily enough, I have worked in the counter-terrorism circles as a Police Officer in Australia, and have been fortunate enough to work with members of the Jewish, Islamic and Christian communities... and let me tell you, there are beautiful souls in each (as well as some ugly ones)...

I just wish one thing - that all of us may one day have a common goal to make peace with each other, regardless of religion, culture, creed or colour... but alas, I fear it will never happen because of pigs on all sides spreading hate through emails such as that from Rick Mathes - alas!

The ugly truth is this: throughout history more people have been killed in the name of God through for just about any other reason or rationale. It's incredibly sad to me how much hatred and ugliness has constantly and consistently been fomented in the name of God. God put us here. It's up to us to find the elusive peace and harmony that somehow evades us all because we're too focused on pushing our own agendas as being the "one true way." Live and let live is the only premise we really need to learn and obey.

P.S. it saddens me to know that a hate monger like Rick Mathes lives in Missouri, my native state.

Wow...alot of replies for a simple email. My questions kinda veer off the subject but maybe someone can enlighten me.

A little background about me..born and raised christian, have lived in the states, UK, Germany and haave also spent some time in Iraq, Afghan, Kuwait and Qatar. While living in these foreign countries I tried my best to adhere to their customs and courtesies and to try to at least learn the more common phrases. I felt that since I was in their country(even though we were raised in different beliefs) that I should try my best to integrate with them. Not only to make my stay more pleasant (not sure this could have ever been done) but to also try to see through their eyes.

1. If people are so willing to leave their homelands and come to the states for everything we offer why can they not show respect to the foundations of it? I stand for your national anthem and show respect to your God and your rituals (not meaning anything cult-like) why must I be careful not to say anything about the christian God for fear of being labeled a Zionist?

2. Do Muslims truly feel that all must convert or be killed? (Serious ?)

3. To the christians in this conversation, do you truly feel bashing someone else's beliefs or God is what christ wants you to do? Are you no better than the muslims that you are attacking?

4. From what I have read of the bible and Koran the platform of beliefs seem to be the same with some slight varients. I must admit that from what Ive seen in the world I have basically lost all faith in any higher being. Is it only faith or time that will reveal the true faith (if there is any) or will everyone go to their own Gods heaven/hell?

5. Can anyone explain the concept of scientology? Or is it also just a bunch of hippocrites like every other religion that claims to be doing Gods work and loving mankind when the bottom line they are actually working towards is "Love MY God or you are wrong"...then we will kill you, crucify you, send you up with the aliens...etc.?


*Sorry to those I may have offended either with my questions or my spelling/grammar*

"Aimlessly Wandering"

Muslims stood outside Westminster Cathedral in London with banners proclaiming "Jesus is the slave of Allah" and "Islam will conquer Rome".The police did nothing. If I stood outside a mosque proclaiming " Rome wil conquer Islam" I would have been arrested. So Muslims enjoy preferential treatment in Britain, which cannot by any stretch of the imagination be calles a Christian country.

If you're going to rely on "real" events, please provide some documentation such as links to news stories, photos, etc. Preferably on legitimate sites. I can make all sorts of claims of things I've seen and how they were perceived in different places in the world, but if I don't provide some sort of external verification of what happened, it's just me blowing a lot of hot air.

Here is proof that ISLAM is evil and full of hatred for all other people: Simply go to

http://www.standwithus.com/gallery/cartoonprotest/index.asp

Look at the pure evil... Can you imagine Satan watching this with a big smile from ear-to-ear? Everyone here is giving their own rendition of what to think and believe. Each of us needs to find the truth for ourselves. I read some people who contrast a person who claims to be Christian that kills (like their own kids as mentioned above in another post) with a religion that is based on hatred and killing. First, the person who kills their own kids IS NOT a true follower of Christ just because she went to Church or claimed to be a Christian.

The Koran absolutely says that all Jews should be destroyed and they have been saying it for hundreds of years. Its just taken someone like Bin Laden to act it out in a wide-scale capacity. They have been doing this for years... Muhommad led 27 raids with his sword and killed many, many people. He even needed to be persuaded that his dreams (later which became the Koran) were not from the Devil. Guess what, his teenager wife told him that they were from God and that he was a prophet. Until she finally persuaded him, he was sure that the dream were from Satan himself.

Just like other religions who have burned Christians at the stake for denouncing their religion. The Church of England and the Catholic Church have both burned people at the stake for not denouncing Christianity and taking on their religion. Check out the book - Fox's Book of Martyrs. You can see the whole thing here, online: http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html

Folks, say what you may about people and the thousands of religions in the world today... but only a small number of people really know Jesus Christ and have a relationship with Him. They are the ones that went to the stake instead of denouncing him and following a religion. He is all we need... not religion, not priests, not other books, not spiritual guides. Its only Him and His Word has stood and will stand forever! He did not say to follow religions... He said to follow Him alone. Don't base your eternal decision on someone's actions that CLAIMED to be a follower of Christ. What did Christ do for you? The answer is ONLY found in the Bible. No other "holy" book was written by Christ. He has no part of any other book - but He wants to be part of your life!

I just finished reading all the messages in this discussion (ok, there were a few that I skimmed), and all I can say is, "wow!" Lots of rhetoric, baiting, name-calling - and yet, I did learn a few things about Islam and Christianity. I find it amazing that this has been going on for over two years.

Have a great day, everybody!

I have seen many discussions on the pro's and Con's of Many different religions, since this coversation is on Muslum Vs christianity I am reminded of the Books that are involved, the Koran,and the Bible the two that are involved is Allah meaning God In Arabic, and the God of Christianity when we read the Koran and the Writings of Mohammedan, finding it very interesting as long as the person is a Muslim, but when we talk of people who are referred to a infidels, it is a very different matter, and it takes no prisoners, and those that choose to change from this faith to another is unforgiven, and consquences are fatal.

On the other hand there are many religions in the world that are just as unforgiving, with the Jew it's a funeral when a Jew, decides to change from Jewish religion, and many Eastern Religions Follow suite to the point of murdering unbelievers,so when we look at the doctrine of Religions we find very serious traditions, and beliefs.
There will some say that Christianity, is just same, but we look at the doctrine we find a significant difference, the believe of the Christian is about Christ, his doctrine is of peace and forgiveness, which is a Monumental difference, in the thinking of dictatorships that would rob people of a choice, and the freedom to choose.


If you travel to a predominately Muslim Countries and try to enter with a Bible, and your rights well you figure it out what your fate will be, I can tell you this Christians are not welcome in these Countries. yet we welcome Muslims in this Country.


I have read about ,many debates of many religions, I guess the most out standing and glaring statement, is zero tolerance for people who are not Muslims, and that we are the target, those that are not Muslims, I ask myself why? The resounding answer is that the religious leaders in these extreme Muslim Groups have taught that anyone who is not a follower of Islam, is to be killed, and there lives mean nothing, to teach this religion of mistrust and hate, and brain wash young men and women to be a human Bomb, goes far beyond, Religion.


When a Cleric was ask after a meeting with different religious leaders here in the U.S. about, this doctrine the question is it true what you teach he bowed his head and said yes.

I as a christian think of the lives that have been lost, with this War, and the Terrorist, and the threat that we hear of almost daily. I would truly evaluate, my thinking do we want a God of Death or a God of Forgiveness, I will leave you with that thought.

May God Love and Bless you
Brother David Dutton
Baptist Minister

Brother Dutton - you do a disservice to the Baptist church by demonstrating your ignorance of Islam under the veil of having "seen many discussions" of various religions. Based on the bias you show, I can only assume that the discussions you observed have come from the ilk of Mathes, Falwell, and Robertson. In my opinion, the rhetoric they spew is no less offensive or ill-informed and only slightly less violent than that of al-Sadr and Bin Ladan.

Rick asked pretty simple questions that far too few people have done. Westerners are programmed to feel guilty about some ancient wrong (the crusades etc) so they turn into cowards when it comes to confronting something that is clearly wrong.

Look at the contrast.

Rick asks a perfectly legitimate question and is bad vibed for it, while Muslims routinely call for (and support) the death of America, Israel, and anyone that is not a believer, and yet we hear little more than a peep out of the same liberals.

If ANYONE wants to live in a western country they should ideally be asked to abide by the normal human laws that have made these places civilized. But now it seems we are willing to give up even that to preserve our self image.

Remember that Muslims are oppressed by their own culture (Iran, Syria, Bosnia) until they move to western countries and start wanting it to be like where they came from.

Islam appeals to the downtrodden and gives them someone to hate and vent their bitterness on.

Travis, you are in this liberal category from what I read of your response. Watch a few more beheadings online and try to process the idea that when they say they are doing this for Allah that this might actually be IN THE KORAN. Guess what, it is.

Moderate Muslims many of them good people, play down this aspect of the texts, but the Mullahs and Imams from Saudi Arabia certainly don't. ALL the curriculums from Muslim schools come from Wahabism in Saudi.

THIS IS THE REFORMED VERSION OF ISLAM.

It had been watered down so they made it return to its purer form which was totally anti-believer.

THATS ALL OF US PEOPLE. Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists and all in between.

We have learned to be tolerant. But its ridiculous how we now tolerate this craziness. Wake up and grow some balls I say!!!

@ Herrin Nice closing... You almost warrant a thought out response, but your degrading into grade school antics at the end shows your maturity level.

Rather than a full response, I'd like to remind you that you practice a "watered down" version of your religion if you follow any of the judeo-christian religions. At one point or another, extremists have used the same text as you to justify all sorts of atrocities. For you to ignore this as "just some liberal trying to make me feel guilty 'cause I'm scared of people I don't understand" is to completely miss the point.

I find it odd that several religions support love of fellow man no matter what the religion but the Muslim religion favors killing those who do not particularly believe in Muslim. The Jews for instance do not believe in killing everyone who is not of the Jewish faith. The Catholics do not favor killing everyone who is not Catholic (Ireland is an exception) nor do Christians believe in the killing of other religions. Athiests do not believe in any religion, yet they also do not believe in the killing. I haven' identified which of these you are. ED

"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."
-- Eleanor Roosevelt

It seems to me that most who are commenting on the issue raised here have not read the Hadith. In it you will find narrations of the life and activities of Mohammed. Unless one reads the book he cannot comment on whether or not Islam has leanings towards violence.

Rick Mathes point in his message was the difference is LOVE OR KILL.
Maybe you are to short it went right over your head. America's problem started when they took God our of our schools. This led to NO CONSCIENCE in minds of SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE, so we have killings in schools NOW! That is What some Muslims also teach. A SAD WAY TO LIVE! LIBERALS ALSO are teaching killing of babies in
abortion. This country was started for believers to live in peace not hate.
RIGHT OR WRONG! LOVING is right and Killing IS WRONG to continue in a peaceful land. GROW UP! KILLING IS FROM THE DEVIL no matter what your religion. I believe in HELL & I believe if you kill because of your religion Hell is where you will go. Read 23 Minutes in Hell then read 90 Minutes in Heaven - Then TAKE YOUR CHOICE. I gave the 90 minutes in Heaven to a friend that took the book to Russia. She gave the book to a book club in Russia and it is being loaned to everyone in the book club. That is a good thing.

hey travis, all the knowledge in the world means nothing unless you have common sense to go along with it. smarten up mister, smell the roses, rick hit the nail on the head pal with the islamic religion. this country is doomed if you think islam is the right way to go. i can't believe any sane person would change over to the islamic religion. seems like all the criminals that are incarcerated have a grudge against being a lawbiding citizen and want to get back at the system, and thats the way to do it. if they think being a muslim is going to save them they have another thought comming. what in the world did your parents teach you when you were growing up ? or are they both in prison. God help us all if the people and the liberals in this country can't seem to get the picture. God Bless America !!

I stumbled across your site after a disturbing email was forwarded to me by another Christian.

Interesting site. I love the passion in many of the above comments, although I find it fairly amusing that many sound like a Miss Universe pageant speech hoping for “world peace”. It’s a nice sentiment. I guess though it’s surprising knowing how many have said they have read the Bible… which I assume means they’ve read the final book?

Thanks to the people challenging others to think.

I challenge Travis's position that Islam and Christians share the same Lord. If the original Allah was, the Allah that "The Prophet" Mohammed worshiped certainly was not! The Christian's God is a God of Love - not a God who condones raping, thievery and murder, as practiced by Mohammed! Certainly the Christians involved in the Crusades - who murdered both Jews and Muslims - were not acting upon any direction from God. Those were times that offered little educational opportunity. Keeping the followers ignorant allowed a convincing leader to manipulate men into believing they were doing God's work. Christians matured away from that lie. Islam perpetuates that lie!

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Hebrews 9:26-28 (New American Standard Bible)
26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since (A)the foundation of the world; but now (B)once at (C)the consummation of the ages He has been (D)manifested to put away sin (E)by the sacrifice of Himself.

27And inasmuch as (F)it is appointed for men to die once and after this (G)comes judgment,

28so Christ also, having been (H)offered once to (I)bear the sins of many, will appear (J)a second time for (K)salvation (L)without reference to sin, to those who (M)eagerly await Him.

Travis,
Has anyone ever told you
that God loves you and that
He has a wonderful plan for
your life? I have a real quick, but
important question to ask you. If
you were to die this very second,
do you know for sure, beyond a
shadow of a doubt, that you
would go to Heaven?

Let me quickly share with you
what the Holy Bible reads. It
reads "for all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God"
and "for the wages of sin is
death, but the gift of God is
eternal life through Jesus Christ
our Lord". The Bible also reads,
"For whosoever shall call upon
the name of the Lord shall be
saved". And you’re a "whosoever"
right? Of course you are;
all of us are.

I’m going to say a quick
prayer for you. Lord, bless
Travis and his/her family
with long and healthy lives.
Jesus, make Yourself real to
Travis and do a quick work in
Travis's heart. If Travis has
not received Jesus Christ as
his Lord and Savior, I pray
he will do so now.
Travis, if you would like to
receive the gift that God has for
you today, say this after me with
your heart and lips out loud.
Dear Lord Jesus, come into my
heart. Forgive me of my sin.
Wash me and cleanse me. Set
me free. Jesus, thank You that
You died for me. I believe that
You are risen from the dead and
that You’re coming back again
for me. Fill me with the Holy
Spirit. Give me a passion for the
lost, a hunger for the things of
God and a holy boldness to
preach the gospel of Jesus
Christ. I’m saved; I’m born
again, I’m forgiven and I’m on
my way to Heaven because I
have Jesus in my heart.
As a minister of the gospel of
Jesus Christ, I tell you today that
all of your sins are forgiven.
Always remember to run to God
and not from God because He
loves you and has a great plan
for your life.

May God bless you and keep you and open your eyes to the things that are important and close off the attemps that are made to rob and steal from you what has been freely given to you Travis.

Interesting reading. Does it matter what Rick Mathes said or didn't say? The issue is that we have people who are searching for salvation, whether through "Allah", "Jehovah", The "One God of Israel". Ultimately within the three religions, those who trust in "God" will be saved. What are we spending time, and energy on? Quarrelling, debating words - all futile!
Live the life! God is God. We can argue and defend as much as we like. In His own words "I am who I am", and trust me - in the end it doesn't matter how you interpret or misinterpret the Bible or the Koran, etc. the TRUTH WILL PREVAIL, AND GOD WILL BE GOD.

Swishgood? What crap....

greetings!

i just read your blog by accident...

by the way... r u a Christian?

well i would like to share how God loves you...

We are all sinners that's why we are not worthy of heaven...

but u know that God loves us that's why He gave HIS SON Jesus Christ to died on the cross and rose again... to pay the transgressions of our sins.

Now if you accept Him as your PERSONAL SAVIOR and LORD... He will save you from all your sins.

now... will you accept... the GOD'S gift of grace?

Religion isn't important. what matters most is the relationship to Him, to Jesus Christ.

greetings!

i just read your blog by accident...

by the way... r u a Christian?

well i would like to share how God loves you...

We are all sinners that's why we are not worthy of heaven...

but u know that God loves us that's why He gave HIS SON Jesus Christ to died on the cross and rose again... to pay the transgressions of our sins.

Now if you accept Him as your PERSONAL SAVIOR and LORD... He will save you from all your sins.

now... will you accept... the GOD'S gift of grace?

Religion isn't important. what matters most is the relationship to Him, to Jesus Christ.

Got the letter, don't know Rick
Mathes. Seems to be another 501(c)3
preacher trying to get a free lunch.
When a group of people attack the
USA under the guise of a specified
religion is our enemy. If folks
really want to defeat the enemy get off
your lazy butts and get involved in your
local place of worship and quit sending
money to phantom preachers who live the
good life while you wonder how you
are going to get your tank of gas...

FYI: Before Islam, many nations in the middle east were pagan and worshiped many spirits/demons/"gods" until Mohammed forced them "to chose only one, the one called "Allah". So in answer to your question: No, Jesus is not "Allah", thank God!

People fail to remember the true purpose God intened when he created humans. To be His servants. Period.

Our time on Earth and his plan for us is our training for our eternal life in Heaven. He gives us obsticles, challenges and the opportunity to do things the way He would do, therefore He fashioned us in His image. He is our parent; our guardian. Just like parents who love their children, do not tell them the answers to their questions, so also does God. We wouldn't learn if we were always told the answer.
When God sends us a challenge, it is up to our conscience to choose the right answer. When we chose the wrong answer (sin), God gives us another challenge. He loves us enough to keep testing us until we get it right.

To have faith in God and Jesus is to believe in Heaven. You cannot have one without the other. If you work hard to accept God and his challenges; his plan for you, then you can have the peace of mind that He will hold a place for you in Heaven.

People are so quick to judge, to put their defences up, to anger when things go wrong: be it sickness, death of a loved one, financial hardship, religious war, etc... just remember that how we deal with our problems builds us into who we are.

Everyone claims their religion leads to Heaven yet we all believe in the same God. It is only God knows which is the true religion, if one really exists. For all we know with all this manipulating of religion, the true one may have fallen through the cracks. But what is important is our relationship with God and one another.

God put us in charge of protecting Him and His word from evil. Remember that the Devil is powerful, too. He knows how to mess with our heads. In the Bible it says our faith will be tested... This whole mess of an article sure proves that!

"Ignorance" can be cured with
education.

There is NO CURE for "STUPIDITY".

Just got the Mathes forward. Although I am a Catholic, I found his attitude toward the Imam, and his lack of understanding of the non-fundamentalist interpretation of Jihaad to be appallingly ignorant.
My response is simply: what about those three hundred years of 9+ crusades where we all wanted to kill all infidel Muslims, and what about the fact that Jews, Christians, and Muslims are all in fact Sons of Abraham.
If this program chose to present a fundamentalist-radical view of Islam, shame on them for ignoring the majority belief of the Islam faithful.
Even Rome will admit that Allah==Jehova/Yahweh.

You go boy!!!!!!!!

Dear Rick:
Is it true that you do not accept Jesus as your Savior? And if so, do you think of yourself as a Christian?

Also, do you accept the Book of Revelation as a reliable source of future events?

I received Mr. Mathes' email earlier today and I have to admit, I cried. It was so upsetting to me that, like so many before me, I felt compelled to search out and find out more about this.

After reading this blog for HOURS, I'd like to say a few things.

I'm not religious - this does not mean I don't believe in a God - I just don't identify with any particular organized religion. I know this whole blog has been about religion, but since I'm not qualified to speak on that front, I'd like to slightly change the subject and talk about the people and culture.

I was living in the US (Berkeley, CA to be exact) and now live in a Muslim country.

Do my neighbors and friends here all know that I'm not Muslim? Yes.

Do they know that I'm not one of the 3 major religions? Yes.

Have they tried to kill me since according to what I've read here, I'm an infidel? NO.

Unless, of course, you're talking about killing me with kindness and hospitality. Making sure I have food to eat, a place to sleep and cold water on hot days (of which there are many).

Religion is the belief that we all have. They have theirs, you have yours, I have mine. It's the ACTIONS that matter the most, in my humble opinion.

For example, I remember when I first got here and could barely say "Hello, my name is...". I was accepted into a family (that proudly introduced me to their community as THEIR daughter), they took care of me, fed me, sheltered me, taught me things, etc.

How many foreigners, who could barely speak your language, have you taken into your home? Fed? Clothed? Sheltered? Treated as family?

Maybe this is all happening to me because I'm a Foreign girl, but so far my experience has taught me that this is just the cultural norm.

I know of one homeless man in my town - everyone knows he's a little "crazy" - but when I see him, he's never hungry, he never asks me for money, and he's always dressed properly (although his clothes are dirty). The first time I met him, he offered me tea. The HOMELESS man who has nothing...

I have felt more love and acceptance living here than I ever did in the US. And even though I'm not Muslim (to which they say 'poor thing...' and move on) they accept me as I am, faith and all.

Maybe we need to look past the texts and look more at the actions of the people. Are there bad Muslims? Yes. Are there bad Christians? Yes. Are there bad Buddhists? Yes. But there are good people too. And that is what matters most. Not what religion you are or what faith you follow, but HOW you act toward your fellow human.

Many, many posts ago, someone asked if you'd want to live in a Christian country or a Muslim one. Having lived in both, I can say I prefer the Muslim one because of the way they treat me. I don't agree with some of the cultural norms (treatment of women, for example), but I do prefer the way the community takes care of each other - how no one goes hungry, children are never lost, the elderly are always cared for, etc.

Do they want to leave their countries and go to America or Europe? Some do, yes. My experience has been that they leave for work, not for any sort of religious freedom, because all the Muslims I've met say that it's a beautiful religion.

Do they try to convert me? Some do, simply because they want me to go to Heaven with them. But when I respectfully decline, they understand, pour another glass of tea and move on.

I don't expect to change any minds on here. I just wanted to share my experiences in a Muslim country and maybe reduce the fear that so eagerly wants to spread.

Salam wa alekum (peace be with you)
vai

Here is something to think about. I find that Romans 2:14-15 Tells me that at the time Paul was bringing people to God. He (Paul) wrote the following:
2:14-15" For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, DO BY NATURE, the things contained in the Law, these having not the Law are a law unto themselves:Which SHOW THE WORKS OF THE LAW written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness...

These scriptures tell me that there will be many people saved that have never ever heard of Jesus, but they by nature are doing the best they know how to be. Treating others as they would like to be treated, etc. Do not steal, help those in need, etc.

In our generation we are held MUCH more accountable. We KNOW the teachings of Christ, we have the Bible in print in nearly every home.

The harvest time is almost here for EVERYONE on earth. God is very upset with America, schools are 'teaching' that homosexuality is a normal thing to do. God said otherwise when He allowed a Large Asteroid to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.

The stage is being set, and nearly complete when a powerful religion will unite with the New World Order and demand obedience to their form of Religion. This whore of Revelation will brand those who keep God's 10 Commandments as evil rebels and enemies of God. The 'brand' is called the "mark of the Beast," it is not an object, but symbolic of one's allegiance.

Those who refuse to go along with the demands of this system are said to have the Seal of God in their forehead, which too is not some physical, but indicative of someone who Loves God (with their mind (behind the forehead)with all their heart, and choose to die at the hands of the Beast, if it comes to that, rather than offend or deny God in any way.

Dude, Islam is the only religion to have commanders and not priest. Imams are nothing more than folk who lead prayers in the local mosques. they are not folk who spend decades studying islam, but rather common folk who know very little about islam. It would behoove you to learn a bit before spouting off. FYI, Vai, your full of crap you are a Muslim. I too have lived in a Muslim country and they are not as nice people. They look at any one who is not a Muslim as garbage.

Dude, Islam is the only religion to have commanders and not priest. Imams are nothing more than folk who lead prayers in the local mosques. they are not folk who spend decades studying islam, but rather common folk who know very little about islam. It would behoove you to learn a bit before spouting off.

FYI, Vai, your full of crap you are a Muslim. I too have lived in a Muslim country and they are not as nice people. They look at any one who is not a Muslim as garbage.

The bottom line here is the word "non-believer" should be terminated in order to go to heaven, believers or not, no one has the right to suggest killing is one way to go to heaven, any religion has all its beliefs to follow and all of them has been guilty of something(check your history) and you will see that KKK, were most Christian and I am Christian, and I hate what they did, anyone is as guilty as the other, the reality is not about religion its about politics and survival of athe fittest. What it should be, yourself knows what the answer, and I am sure not que sera sera.

The stage is rapidly being set for the Beast of Revelation to take full power.

Preparation day is here. "Be ye also ready, for when ye think not, the Son of man cometh."

Jesus has given us a means for knowing when his arrival will be imminent. The earth is rotting by corruption of every imaginable sort. Sin abounds. God is fed up and will soon tell Jesus to go get the righteous from the earth, the world is to be destroyed of ALL it's rebellious inhabitants.

Travis, If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. You have adopted a "universalistic" or "relativism" mindset which is accepting of ALL belief systems. Rick's point is painfully clear and was presented respectfully. He's not advising us to so much as even dislike a muslim but only to understand where they're coming from and to put it into context well. We need to pray for them, and you, that my God, the true and living (one and only: Is. 45:18) will, in His time, present Himself in all of His Grace and Mercy that they will turn to Him and repent. The important thing is that you keep seeking.

Rob, I'm pretty sure I would know if I was a Muslim or not. And since you don't know me, you can't say I'm full of crap and that I'm a Muslim.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience in the Muslim country you were living in. Perhaps they judged you by your attitudes or behavior and treated you the way you treated them.

Considering how you've treated me so far, I can't say I blame them.

Rob, I'm pretty sure I would know if I was a Muslim or not. And since you don't know me, you can't say I'm full of crap or that I'm a Muslim.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience in the Muslim country you were living in. Perhaps they judged you by your attitudes or behavior and treated you the way you treated them.

Considering how you've treated me so far, I can't say I blame them.

ARE WE READY FOR THE TRUTH

There never was and never will be but one God and he is the father of all creation, but he rested on the seventh day and turned everything over to his only created son.

There never was and never will be but one son and this son created in the image and likeness of God is both the word and Spirit of the father and the Lord God of all creation and everything in creation came out of him for he is Christ.

Up until this seventh day there never has been but one body of Christ, for Jesus the son of man is his only body until now. Jesus the first born of many sons is the lamb of God and the groom that all creation will marry, and when we marry him, become one with him, then we will be the same body of Christ he is and eventually everyone in all creation will be part of this same body.

When everyone is the body of Christ, then Christ the head will have everything under his feet and he will give it all back to the father that God may be all in all.

Your brother in Christ for we are all his body and will be changed to be like Jesus in this generation.
Blessings
Darrell Girten

I came here expecting to find a profile about Rick Mathes and/or information about his prison encounter with the "Imam". Instead it seems I see mostly commentary that is either anti Catholic, or more atheist or agnostic than Christian, and a great deal of Muslim apologia. Very disturbing since the record seems clear enough
about what Mohammad taught and what the Koran says about killing and violence, as well as what the historical record shows (and scripture) about Catholicism.

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

The above is only one source where Koran translations about killing the infidel or violence is prescribed. In fairness, a Muslim who denies we know what the Koran says will tell us we do not speak Arabic and therefore cannot read the Koran. But search further....a Muslim scholar will be found who has interpreted the Koran for us, and the meaning is still the same.

I am posting here because a response to those who defend a violent belief in a false anti-Christian God need to be answered.

I am a Traditional Catholic

Travis, If you would spend half the time reading what the bible says with an open mind and non-combative attitude as you do in trying to make your points so valid, you would come to find the true peace and love that we all need to live a truly fulfilled life. I am telling you this directly so that you can never say "Nobody ever told me this." Each of us will live our own lives as we please, and when it ends here on earth our choices will determine how we will live eternally. Choose wisely, you have another opportunity today. All the best, James

I have been reading these comments for hours. I think that people are fighting over religion - Islam and Christianity. But I think the real issue should be that whatever the religion, the killings should be banned for any cause. It is inhuman and unnecessary. And also one more thing, be it US, UK or Australia, if one cannot respect the national flag or nation in general, then why living in that country? Why not move the country where one can respect its flag?

wow, this is a very interesting site but harsh, how does a person share their views when the only response you get is criticism, i am not a grammar lecturer so pl's excuse my typo erros, I am a Christian, personally i appreciated Rick Mathes question and statement,our bible teaches us "if u are ashamed of God, he will be ashamed of you" However, whether ur a Muslim or Christian, our bible and your Koran teaches of respect, meaning the respect for all believes and religions, we can choose who too believe in but we cannot Judge those who do not believe in who we think they should, its a shame that people claim to be so spiritual but act in a totally different manner, What happened to peace, understanding, consideration and forgiveness or is that no longer important factors... I am ashamed to be apart of a world that is so judgemental.
So for those who dont agree with this comment, I am sorry but i can only speak on my behalf and this is my opinion.

May u all be blessed

I have read a few of the replies to Rick Mathes article relating his discussion with a supposed Imam. I am not a believer. I define myself as a open-minded agnostic so I can smile at these exchanges with a bit of aloofness. Personnally, I have always been shocked that all religions at one moment or other of their history have led either in their mainstream or in their extremists to violence against other religions (Out of the Church, no salvation). I suggest that you all listen closely to Imagine by John Lennon. That is about as close as I can get to an ideal world. Human beings dont need religions but religions need people to enslave and control. Of course, the Imams (used as a generic term which includes people like yourself Mr Mathes) of the world are all too ready to instruct us poor souls (figure of speech)on the Truth and show us the wrong of our ways. Luckily religious authorities have less power in western societies that they used to have and more people make up their own minds about things based on THEIR real needs and not on those ordained by clerics. The islamic world will join us one day as people in islamic countries mature and develop their liberty of thought; my hunch is that the liberation of islamic women will play a large part in this. Amen!

This is what really amazes me, people who don't have a clue of what is being discussed, is giving an opinion about things, that would only help create more confusion.

As for me - I've been born in a Muslim country (that wouldn't give citizenship even if you were born there); which is one of the most liberal of the Muslim countries. Yet, I have to admit, it is more conservative than the most conservative Christian nation.

Little surprise then, that if you were to visit Saudi Arabia (where there are no Churches - except for US military- within the confines of their camp); you cannot carry any religious articles with you, except that of Islam, like the Bible or Holy Images, etc. If they find you had brought something like that, and it is your first time - they would only confiscate it, but it is not the first time - you'll be sent back in the same flight, by which you came.

Also all women have to completely cover themselves (no matter which religion) in a black covering - from head to toe, when they venture out of their homes. Women also do not get driving license and have to always be accompanied by male relatives (close), when they are outside.

They also have 'religious police', who wander through the streets - to ensure that every bit of Islamic law (Shariah) is maintained. For instance at the time of their prayer, if they see a local/Muslim wandering - they'll strike him with the canes they have in hand and rush him to the nearest mosque.

It is extremely hard to imagine such a society in the modern age - but anyone is welcome to visit/enquire to get first/second hand information and verify my claims.

I live in a country that is adjacent to Saudi Arabia and know first hand accounts - though I've never been there and don't want/intend to.

A Muslim is obliged to kill, the unbelievers (infidels).

People often accuse Christians of having the Crusades - but they fail to realize Crusades were a response - not an initiation. The Muslims had conquered the Holy Land and were torturing and extorting from the Christian piligrims visiting the Holy Land, they had destroyed the Holy Sites and hence Crusades were a response to this aggression.

Pls read you history from informed sources, it'll change the whole perspective. If there was no Islamic aggression, there would be no Crusades.

All of Arabia and North Africa were Christian/ Jewish people, except for some Tribes - but all of that has been conquered and subjected to Muslim rule - the Shariah Law.

greetings in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST my name is Rayna Kade, im a christian i believe in God Jesus Christ and the Holy spirit all three in one. God is King of Kings Lord of Lords the ruler of this world, just look at the creation God did, how God created you, psalm 139v 14 i will praise thee, for i am fearfully and wonderfully made,marvellous are thy works, and that my soul knoweth right well. how could anyone question that God is real, and how could anyone believe in something else than God? psalm 118v8 it is better to trust in the Lord than to put your confidence in man. if you believe something else you will always come up empty. if you dont believe in God one day when you God will take you from this earth that he has created you, in Genesis chap. 2v7 and the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.genisis chap. 3v19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken, for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. so if you dont believe in God, there is only two places were man can go heavon and hell. and if you want to go to heavon there is only one way, john 3v16 for God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. vs 17 for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.vs 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. im not here to talk about a religion, there are thousands of religions in the world today, when it comes down to it, there is only one God only one Bible that will get you through to heavon. there are many books that have been written through history, but only one book has survived and will survive forever. you cannot deny the truth, no matter how hard you try, Gods word will always be over every other word and it will stand forever. all you need to do is read it, Jesus wants to live in your heart today, he is knocking revelation. 3v20 behold i stand at the door and knock,if any man hear my voice and open the door, i will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. vs 21 to him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne.vs 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 1 john chap 5v 11, and this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.vs 12 He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. vs 13 These things have i written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.1 john chap 1 vs 9 if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. if we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. galations chap 6v8 for he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap coruption, but he that soweth to the spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.romans chap 8 vs 31 if God is for us, who can be against us? romans 8 vs 16 the spirit itself beareth withness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.romans 1 vs 16 for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.john chap 5 vs 24 verily verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life. vs 25 verily verily I say unto you the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear, the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. one pastor one time said that whatever books you read or whatever you hear, always read your own Bible to know the truth. and there is only one Bible and only one truth Jesus Christ. if you have read this far you that means that you are interested to know God, read the Bible. no matter what your family believes or religon they are in, remember it is every one to themselves, your family cant save you, only God can save you, Jesus Christ died for your sins so that you can go to heavon. this world will end, it is appointed for everyone to die, and every person has a soul, so choose today of whom you will serve, God or some other myth or a make believe or an idol there is only one true God, read the Bible and seek it for yourself, Jesus Christ is knocking at your hearts door will you let him in? or do you not have any room for him? if not then on judment day he will say to you that he does not know you, its all upto you of where you choose to go. i wanted to say get that there are two comments on here that i want to say amen to they are by Juhen, and Andre Potgieter, good job guys, and amen to what you were saying. God bless you all of whoever reads this. see you in Heavon:)

the infamous 'letter to...' etcetera is all but a FAKE!! This 'interview' never happened!! the 'author' never said who was the imam, when and where the 'interview' took place, the circumstances around, other witness, etc. Other way, why the 'unknow' imam didn't say nothing about crusaders, the Pope's comittmenn for holy war against muslim and jews, the Jeanne d'Arc burning, the holy Inquisition, the Salem witches, the Richard Lionheart massacres, the amerindias genocide...? just Christians, perfectly christians, killed so many jews and muslims at Jerusalem, and Holocaust (Shoah) is just a 'christian crime' not a muslim one!! And the chrstians crimes are still running on today in Iraq and Adghanistan

When infamous Paris Saint Bartolomew nigth massacre -catholic ambush against hugonottes- and about how to distinguish who were who in the middle of the nigth, french christians catholics leaders ordered: 'no matter about who is who: killed them all, so the Lord in Heaven will recognize who are the hugonottes and who is a catholic!!' How good is Chrisianisty, how full of mercy

Religion is a disease.

-Bill Maher

Mr.Swicegood Jesus loves you too!

Mr. Swicewood, I would love to debate
you sometime on your silly beliefs.
But please give me a little time to
remove my brain. So we can start even.

Hey Travis Swicegood:

You are no doubt the dumbest sum-a-bitch
I have ever heard. May you contract
colon cancer and die screaming in a
second rate hospital somewhere.

Found this folly via google after reading "The Letter" someone forwarded me. Bottom line--Fanatics of any kind who come knocking at my door are unwelcome and will be politely invited to leave. Those who come by force will be met by it. This infidel doesn't turn the other cheek.

Oh I get it, Mathes is good, your evil...next! Your tone is arrogant in everything you write, not at all that of tolerance, peace or love...all of which oppose evil. Minus the emotion Mathes uses to describe the Muslim response, he just uncovered the truth and therefore, freedom allows us the choice to choose. Aren't you glad your freedom to choose is being fought hard for? Do you deserve it? No, none of us do. Mathes isn't using violence or malice to influence his belief...I'm sorry you oppose God's truth.

Well, i have read some of the comments on Islam and Jesus. Islam omits the cross completely because that is where the major work was done by Jesus. He didn't die, He gave up His life for us because we are sinners.
Jesus became sin for us on the cross because there wasn't enough of blood of animals to cover mankinds horrible sins.
He not only took sin on His body but diseases, God's wrath, hell, death and the grave. His body looked like hamburger meat thrown on the cross. He was unrecognisable. Jesus did this out of great love for all of us.
Yes, He is the only way to make it to heaven. I mean, it's your choice. You can believe in Him and go to heave or you can disbelieve and spend an eternity separated from the Love of God. I chose Jesus. Hell is not on my agenda.
Yes there is another life after we die. We will live eternally somewhere and the choice is up to you.
God the Father is such a loving God. He made us for HIs pleasure. I don't know why people can't see this.
When you die, you will remember this message and wished you had chosen Jesus.
Love you,
Smoke

i agree with the last comment... Jesus did what he did because of his unconditional love for everyone... just so that who ever reads this know, God Loves equally He does not only Love Christians but he also loves non- Christians or shall i say a person who also does not believe in Him(Jesus)... You see we are all sinners, he hates Sin that we commit but He lovers the sinner which is us people. Mr Rick Mathes only asked a question but it does make sense... i would rather believe in Jesus and i do because he is merciful to us and he Loves us all.

William,
The wisdom of man is foolishness unto God.
Smoke

A couple of days ago I was running (I use that term very loosely) on my treadmill, watching a DVD sermon by Louie Giglio....and I was BLOWN AWAY!
I want to share what I learned....but I fear not being able to convey it as well as I want. I will share anyway.

He (Louie) was talking about how inconceivably BIG our God is...how He spoke the universe into being...how He breathes stars out of His mouth that are huge raging balls of fire...etc. etc. Then He went on to speak of how this star-breathing, universe creating God ALSO knitted our human bodies together with amazing detail and wonder. At this point I am LOVING it (fascinating from a medical standpoint, you know.) ....and I was remembering how I was constantly amazed during medical school as I learned more and more about God's handiwork. I remember so many times thinking.....'How can ANYONE deny that a Creator did all of this???'

Louie went on to talk about how we can trust that the God who created all this, also has the power to hold it all together when things seem to be falling apart....how our loving Creator is also our sustainer.

And then I lost my breath.

And it wasn't because I was running my treadmill, either!!!

It was because he started talking about laminin.

I knew about laminin. Here is how wikipedia describes them :'Laminins are a family of proteins that are an integral part of the structural scaffolding of basement membranes in almost every animal tissue.' You see....laminins are what hold us together....LITERALLY. They are cell adhesion molecules. They are what holds one cell of our bodies to the next cell.. Without them, we would literally fall apart. And I knew all this already. But what I didn't know is what laminin LOOKED LIKE.

But now I do.

And I have thought about it a thousand times since.

Here is what the structure of laminin looks like....AND THIS IS NOT a 'Christian portrayal' of it....if you look up laminin in any scientific/medical piece of literature, this is what you will see...



Now tell me that our God is not the coolest!!!
Amazing.
The glue that holds us together...ALL of us....is in the shape of the cross.
Immediately Colossians 1:15-17 comes to mid.

'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

For by him all things were created; things in heaven and on earth , visible and invisible,

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;all things were created by him and for him.

He is before all things, and in him all things HOLD TOGETHER. 'Colossians 1:15-17.

Call me crazy. I just think that is very, very, very cool.

Thousands of years before the world knew anything about laminin, Paul penned those words. And now we see that from a very LITERAL standpoint, we are held together...one cell to another....by the cross.

You would never in a quadrillion years convince me that is anything other than the mark of a Creator who knew EXACTLY what laminin 'glue' would look like long before Adam even breathed his first breath!!

" Faith is not knowing what the future holds, but knowing who holds the future."

I wanted you to know and to understand that YOU are being held together by the cross of Jesus Christ! His love! His forgiveness and His marvelous power!

Jerry,
I remember reading about Laminin a few years ago and it blew me away. I don't know how i found it on the internet. It seems i just found it by accident. No accidents with Yahweh.(God)
Hugs,
Smoke

I happened upon this nutty site by accident and just had to respond! First off, if you want to criticize my grammar and spelling, go straight to Hell and talk to the American Public Education system that is crumbling from within. I know how to get my point across and that’s what counts!

Pretty much anything organized and run by the hand of man is corrupt. While I have a deep belief in God, religion in general is a sham. That is not to say those who believe are a sham; they’re just sheep. I don't think a true God cares that I go to a place designated by man to put money in a plate once a week to reserve my place in Heaven. My actions and true thoughts are what my Creator sees and knows and that is all that counts. Any “religious faith” that argues, denounces and kills because of how someone else worships or what they choose to call their Creator is sick and demented, PERIOD!!

I will say this though; at no time did Christians, Buddhists or any other religion EVER commit genocide against my family where Muslims and those of the Islamic faith have. Don’t tell me about something that happened 500 – 600 years ago because pretty much everyone was an ignorant fool back then nor did I have a personal stake in how their actions directly affected my family. My grandfather went to his grave hating Islam with good reason and he was a very kind, gentle man who endured great pain in his life. I can only imagine the atrocities those nuts committed that made him breakdown when I would try to talk to him about it.

I am an American because my mother’s parents fled religious zealots (Islamic Muslims – no clue if they are one in the same nor do I really care) killing their families and friends simply because they were non-believers (Infidels). Any religion that allows this to go on without denouncing it at the top of their lungs and does nothing to help stop it is surely a religion based on hatred and willing to turn a blind eye to ignorance and intolerance.

Also, Islam is not just a religion but an economic and political belief too; we see this in other countries being taken over by these nuts but I digress.

As I said, I have no use for any religion, least of all the Islamic sham. They actually think women are lesser people. Are you kidding me, are we still living in caves?? Oops, most of them are. Sorry I forgot; they choose to remain ignorant because they think it makes them better than the rest.

If you are Muslim or a member if the Islamic faith and I have offended you, AWESOME, I meant to!!! Your pathetic religion and the so-called peace-loving, tolerant version the talking heads get on TV and spew rhetoric about is kinda like Elvis and Bigfoot sightings; you hear about it but never actually see it!

May we all burn in Hell together for crapping on God’s greatest gift of Life and Mother Earth (no, I’m not an environmental weenie).

Brother, please drop it. You accomplish nothing in the eyes of The Lord by doing what you are doing.

May God have mercy on us all.

The Crusade Wars perpetrated by the followers of The Papal System against the Jews and Moslems were Wrong and Evil.

The tortures and persecutions carried out by the Papal System during the Inquisition against followers of Christ and against those who desired to translate the Bible so that the man in the street could read it and know the truth were Wrong and Evil.

For it is in Knowing the Truth and Obeying it that makes a man a true disciple of Christ and sets him free from spiritual bondage.

Imposing one's own beliefs on any man whether by Force, Constraint, Intimidation or Coercion is Wrong and Evil.

God told man to Choose for himself life or death blessings or curse and accept the responsibility of his choice.
Free choice that is Good.

To tell a man what you believe is the Truth, is Good.

To allow that man the Freedom to Choose, is Good.

To Force him to believe as you do or to take his life because he does not, is Wrong and Evil.

The choice is the individuals.

Dont condemn a Belief by the life of the followers of that belief but rather go and examine the Life of the One they are following.

Jesus Christ called by most a Prophet of God.
A prophet speaks what he hears from God not his own message.
Jesus Christ said 'I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but through me'
Jesus Christ said 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father" .
Does a Prophet Lie?

Jesus Christ Healed the Sick, Delivered those oppressed and possessed of demons.
Jesus Christ had compassion for those in need,
Jesus Christ loved little children taking them in His arms and imparting a blessing upon them.
Jesus Christ Taught man how to Love by laying down his own life for all who would believe in Him.

Go, Examine the life of Muhammed and see if the same things can be said of him.

Today, you are FREE to Choose for yourself who you will believe.

As for me, and my household, we will worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob God the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I often wondered the same thing that Rick Mathes had the courage to ask.

Jesus says the following.

Mt 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mt 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mt 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mt 5:47
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

God demonstrated his Love for us by giving us his Only Son while we were yet sinners Jesus Died for us. This is about Love and Jesus has shown us his love through his Life, Death, and Resurrection.

Jesus The Word made flesh and dwelt amoung us.

Joh 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the
glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

All Rick Mathes is saying is that it's better to serve a God who Loves.

Travis,

I came across your blog when a work colleague forwarded me this hate-inciting chain-letter against Muslims. I am the only Muslim she ever met. She received the Rick Mathes chain letter twice from two different sources and wanted to know how true it was. As you so eloquently put it in your responses to Mr. Mathes it is anything but truthful.

I just wanted to say thank you. Voices like yours are few, and it heartens one to know that there are people out there like yourself who have some understanding of history and sense of when injustice is being done.

Mo

Well Travis, what is your point of view regarding the content of the message of Islam? It is not clear because it is not stated.

this is an email I sent to john after his totally unsolicited email to me this morning in New Zealand.

John, is this your experience or are you simply passing on what you believe someone else said?
think back to the crusades and ask yourself what was their purpose, ask yourself what is the purpose of proselytizing american missionaries around the world for the past couple of centuries.
ask yourself about the fear that the church of rome appears to hold over the poor and minorities around the world. and especially ask yourself, did you support the 'holy' war against iraq. and then ask if jesus would have supported any of this. we have much to experience in life, all valuable lesson, but fear is the true killer of ideas and ideals. Richard.
ps, religion is for those who don't want to go to hell, spirituality is for those who have all ready been there.
ps, ps, evil people will always do evil, good people will always do good but for good people to do evil, that takes religion.
ps, ps, ps, religion is the opiate of the masses.

Please scrutinize the untampered videos of 911 and and who actually initiated the event. Not the footages shown in TVs but the personal accounts made by withness.

But I believe on the religion that came from the roots of the "tree" and not the one on the "leaves"

Tell me, which Prophet you want to follow..the one who committed so much sins or the one who is sinless and that is JESUS. And WHO came before time began, that's what I call the ROOTS!

Mr. Mathes,

I read a post you made on 7/21 (assuming last year as no year given) and was totally appalled. How you could even deign to call yourself a Christian is beyond me! My father is war veteran and I was raised with strict discipline in our home. I have raised my children the same way. By your standards, one of our daughters should never have been born! My ex-husbands family inter-married, so she is part Hispanic, American Indian, Black & Caucasian. There was a very good chance she could have been born black. You purport LOVE??? Of what? YOURSELF???

I was raised and baptised a Presbyterian, however; never felt comfortable in that church. I have been to just about every denomination there is, and there isn't one I feel comfortable in at all. So I just do not go. Does that make me a non-believer? NO! Does that mean I will not go to heaven? NO!! I firmly believe in Jesus & God, but I believe that we can pray and worship anywhere, as He is everywhere. I also believe that quite a few books of the Bible were deliberately left out by the Catholic church, hence the Gnostic gospels. "The Kingdom of God is inside of you and all around you. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me." But does that mean that I hate Catholics? NO! Just as I can not, and will not, hate ALL Muslims for the acts of a few. After the Korean War & WWII, we allowed Koreans and Japanese to enter this country lawfully, even after the bloodshed in Korea, Hawaii & all of WWII. But if you had it your way, ALL Muslims would be wiped off the face of the Earth. You are WORSE than the TERRORISTS!

Someone else stated that you are very similar to another white collar, liberalist, minister and I whole-heartedly agree. When you go farther than simply talking to people about God, Jesus & the Bible you become exactly what you puport to hate! And Christians aren't supposed to hate. They are supposed to forgive and love..."the greatest of these is love." Maybe you are the one who needs to brush up on his Bible verses.

Tamera (in Hebrew means Palm Tree)

Several nations have recently allowed provisions for Muslims to have their own legal system to handle legal matters in their host nation. "Sharia Law" is a legal system which many Muslims adhere to. However, in the United States we already have a Legal System and it is required to be "The Law" for everyone who lives, visits, or is a citizen of the United States. Look for Liberals to try to allow Sharia Law in the US to appease Muslims soon. Not only would it be illegal and unconstitutional, it would also be against the required "Oath of Allegiance" which is required for citizenship. If anyone becomes a US citizen and then breaks this oath, they should be stripped of US Citizenship and deported.

Oath of Allegiance
The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

In some cases, USCIS allows the oath to be taken without the clauses:

". . .that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law. . ."

If USCIS finds that you are unable to swear the oath using the words "on oath", you may replace these words with "and solemnly affirm." If USCIS finds that you are unable to use the words "so help me God" because of your religious training or beliefs, you are not required to say these words.

Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them (Q. 9:5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax (Q. 9: 29)

I came across this and many such sites that displays verses and interpretations from the Quran.

Muhammad, false prophet that he was, did not live a life that is exempletory and actually killed people/slept around etc. He himself sinned. Why would anyone in their right mind want to follow his teachings?

Good job setting him straight... every point is spot on and well said. So willful much ignorance out there about different religions...

Found this while checking if the email going round is true and it hilarious. You are critisizing a guy for his believes by telling him his believes are wrong because YOUR believes are right. Shame - who is fooling who?

I see that it has been a while since someone has commented, but I'm starting to get a little annoyed by some of the comments. If you want to believe in a religion whatever that may be, then believe in it. But do not sit there and say Christians believe this, Christians believe that....particularly that Christians believe in killing people at a family planning clinic. Can I first say family planning clinic, are you kidding me, most are there b/c they want to kill the baby that is inside their body, I still can't believe ppl think that is ok. (That is beside the point I'm trying to make). Christians do not believe that it is okay to kill them or anyone else for that matter. Study Christianity before you try to slander it. (This doesn't just go towards ppl trying to slander Christianity, but towards other ppl trying to slander whatever religion they are trying to slander). And we wonder why the world is so corrupt, there is no social juctice! I am a Christian and I am proud to be one. I serve a Lord, Christ, Jesus, who loves me unconditionally, and we as Christians should try and replicate the same kind of love towards EVERYONE(no matter their religion, background, ethnicity, etc). And for those that are thinking, "Well I know some Christians that do this or do that" a word of advice, they are probably NOT really saved, or either aren't living the way Christians are Supposed to live. No one is Perfect! Can we not get off of everybody's backs and pay attention to ourselves and what we are portray?! Geez

Travis Swicegood, why are you so angry? You may not be, but in almost every response you've posted on here, you seem it. Why give people an opportunity to post their beliefs, thoughts, opinions, etc if you aren't willing to have an open mind about it. It seems you are putting down Mr. Mathes b/c of what he did and what he said, (to each his own) for you and for him, however I feel you are accusing him of not being open minded in a sense, yet it seems you're being the same way?

Looking for proves of a message I got, and really shocked how this discussion takes place on your blog. All I wish to say is that it seems impossible to me to accept all faiths preaches are acceptable when people are dying, being murdered, burned alive, raped, etc in 21th century in the name of this named God. Yet many people did many wrong similar things in past using the name of God… Well, does it give us the right to continue permitting people do the same?? Please consider the bloody history of “sharia” worldwide TIIL TODAY before doing what seems an apology of Islamic right/law. Love is the answer, and I see no way love can kill!

1st- there are 200,000 Jihadiste in Central Asia. That represents 0,0002% of the 1 Billion Muslims.

2- It is not because Osama Bin Laden INVITES all the muslims of the world to Jihad that they agree. Please be a little more critic towards such invitations and realise that 99,9998 % of the Muslims do not agree with this Jihad.

3- Read the New Testament ; Luc 19:27 jesus says "..but those, my ennemies who do not want that i rule over them, bring them here, and put them to death before me.."
Simply said, as explained to me by a Catholic priest. God (yes, Our God) knows who will be saved, and who is condemend, thus can take away their lives prematureley, being a Soveriegn God.
It seems our Bible is not much better, yet I do not see 1 Billion Catholics seeking "jihad" on the other 5 billion humans.

Simon.

I've read your rendering and the comments .....what I've learned by reading the comments on this site and others is that the internet allows any idiot to pretend they know the answers and may call others idiots. Behavior and verbiage that allows us to know how nasty and primitive we really are.

I feel now that there is an invasion of prophets in the worlds of religious zealots trying to make a name for themselves. What really disturbs me is the number of adults declaring no religion because of fascist religion dictators I.E: muslim, Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). What is the reason of fighting if all it does is cause bad feelings?

Simon,
Luke 19:27 is part of a parable. It doesn't help anything to take snatches of verses out of context.

I do not believe in any god.

What I know to be true is that many more people have died in the name of their god than those who are good people and do not believe.

Faith is merely hope for a better tomorrow.

Argue all you want about what Muslims are actually supposed to know about their own religion, I have yet to hear a single account of any Christian person blowing themselves up in a supermarket or strapping C4 onto an orphan and blowing them up with a remote instead.

If I had to bet, I would say that most of these radicals can't even read and only know what they have been told via those that themselves probably have been told by the likes of Bin Laden. Because of that, I feel bad for them.

I could care less what anyone learns from studying anything. In reality Actions speak louder than words, and until Muslims begin policing their own misguided followers of the religion I'm OK with my tax dollars paying the Marines, Navy, Air Force, Army, and the Coast Guard to help these people meet their Allah without taking any of my Christian\Muslim\Bhuddist\Athiest\Judaiest friends along with them.

If God didn't want me to be protected he wouldn't have blessed me with friends that serve willingly to protect us all from those that would harm us.

Thank for sharing !!

MY question is... Does or does
not the Islam faith teach
that killing "unbelievers"
would give them automatic
entrance to heaven?

Christians do not believe this.
It is believing the gospel
(For by GRACE (unmerited favor)
you are saved through FAITH
(in God) not of yourselves...
IT IS GOD's Gift NOT of WORKS
so that NO MAN CAN BOAST.
(See Ephesians 2)

Whether someone wants to admit
it or not... most people boast
about the works they do claiming
they are going to heaven by
doing good deeds. According
to the "Doctrine" of CHRIST.
(WHO cares what men say)
Heaven is a GIFT not earned
by killing infidels nor by
loving them. BUT Heaven is
a GIFT of God that none
of us can earn either way.

Despite whether or not the Q'ran teaches killing infidels for automatic
entrance to heaven...
Christianity is the only
religion that teaches GOD
performed the act of Redemption
on our behalf. We don't
earn or deserve it. But
receive it by faith. Our works
are merely "symptoms" of our
gratitude but are not what
gets us to heaven.

(Any religion that teaches works
as a basis of salvation, puts the
burden on man, rather than on
God alone who is able to fulfill
redemption for Himself)

Jesus said, "Come to Me
all you who are weary and
heavy laden and I will
give you rest"



The apostle Paul
was ignorant - thinking he
was doing a good deed
persecuting christians.
So like some muslims
have spoken openly
thinking they are doing
something for God
killing unbeliever's
They are just as ignorant.

I pray God will open
their eyes... just
as he opened the
eyes of the Apostle
Paul... a chief of
all sinners who aided
and abeted in the
killing of christians.

Thus, as Stephen who was
being stoned prayed,
"Do not hold this
charge against them"
"Saul" who became
"Paul" was among them
whom he prayed and
was forgiven. Jesus
spoke to him from
heaven and raised
him up to be an
apostle to the Gentiles.
Hallelujah for Stephen's
merciful prayer.

So let us pray who
are in agreement,likewise
for those who are of
the opposition to
Christ Jesus in the faith.
Let the LORD be
praised and thanked
For He deserves
the glory in giving
His life to save
mankind from sin
and death.

AMEN!!!